Rage Boost

[p123]

Well it's all about Gohan's rage boost to determine this. It's clear that the difference between Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and Super Saiyan Gohan at the Cell Games is absolutely massive. Cell does a tremendous power up and all in all a 2x boost doesn't feel right.

When you add the rage boost to Gohan, it changes a lot of things.

You can have Ssj Goku and Vegeta having a massive advantage over Gohan, yet Ssj2 Kid Gohan's power is still super respectable.

I think it also explains Vegeta's confidence in going up against Teen Gohan, yet still seems dwarfed by Kid Gohan's ultimate power considering he sold his soul to gain a power that barely surpasses it.

I've never been a fan of the rage boost, but honestly I think I'm going for it.

 

[Clearin]

I've made it clear that I'm a complete supporter of Gohan having a rage boost in the Cell Games. I mean it was the entire focus of Goku's plan, and it was referenced multiple times in the Boo saga (specifically referring to Gohan's rage in his fight against Cell).

 

[p123]

Now how big should the rage boost be and how big should Super Saiyan 2 be?

Considering that a rage boost literally has no limit if we know what BOG and Namek Saga have taught us, where do we go from here?

 

[Clearin]

As someone who doesn't use PLs I never worry about that kind of thing. It's just down to your own opinion. How strong did Goku and Vegeta get between Cell and Boo? They both talked about some pretty big gains, which without a rage boost would have to make Gohan leagues above anyone at the Cell Games (easily over x2 as much as Goku). It just comes down to what makes sense. Vegeta apparently increased so much that he thought he'd have surpassed Goku, and yet was utterly dwarfed by Goku's power. Vegeta knows Goku is a genius, so how strong would he have gotten to assume that in 7 years he could have not only caught up with a fighting genius, but also surpassed him? And then how strong must Goku be to surpass even that? Whatever answers you get for that, work out how much rage Gohan would have needed in order to still be ahead of SSj2 Goku and Vegeta from there.

 

[p123]

I'm actually making a list that compliments all of these suggestions very nicely imo. CHeck my BP list, I like it so far. Let me know what you think.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Well it's all about Gohan's rage boost to determine this. It's clear that the difference between Super Saiyan 2 Gohan and Super Saiyan Gohan at the Cell Games is absolutely massive. Cell does a tremendous power up and all in all a 2x boost doesn't feel right.

When you add the rage boost to Gohan, it changes a lot of things.

You can have Ssj Goku and Vegeta having a massive advantage over Gohan, yet Ssj2 Kid Gohan's power is still super respectable.

I think it also explains Vegeta's confidence in going up against Teen Gohan, yet still seems dwarfed by Kid Gohan's ultimate power considering he sold his soul to gain a power that barely surpasses it.

I've never been a fan of the rage boost, but honestly I think I'm going for it.

I don't agree. I don't even think Gohan has to have any rage boosts after Raditz Saga. SSJ2 was his rage
which was retconned as a transformation anyone could do. About the difference between Kid Gohan/Teen
Gohan, i'm between one of those two...
1. Gohan had a weakened version of SSJ2 at Buu Saga because he never trained the form, so he needed
effort/rage/emotions whatever to access the true SSJ2 form.
2. Gohan's base power greatly dropped over the 7 years because of slacking off, making all his forms
proportionally weaker, and Goku/Vegeta were just talking out of ignorance when they expected Gohan to
get a rage boost; they thought something like ''he has surprised us so many times in the past, so, if he gets
mad again, who knows what else he might do'', but Gohan had actually nothing more to show at that point.

 

[POOHEAD189]

I don't agree. I don't even think Gohan has to have any rage boosts after Raditz Saga.

So you're saying his frieza arc rages are his normal PL?

2. Gohan's base power greatly dropped over the 7 years because of slacking off, making all his forms
proportionally weaker, and Goku/Vegeta were just talking out of ignorance when they expected Gohan to
get a rage boost; they thought something like ''he has surprised us so many times in the past, so, if he gets
mad again, who knows what else he might do'', but Gohan had actually nothing more to show at that point.

I'm more inclined to believe this too. Though I do think Gohan had some serious anger management classes, because he never really seemed to go overboard again.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

So you're saying his frieza arc rages are his normal PL?

Yes. Maybe, when he attacked Freeza, it was when his gradual boost from Guru reached its peak.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I'm of the mind that the rage boost and Super Saiyan 2 are the same thing; Gohan's rage boosts are meant to be a natural way for him to unlock his potential, in this case, it took the form of Super Saiyan 2. On the subject of angry Boo Arc Gohan, I consider him stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. When Goku says "no one in the universe can beat you", I think he means that literally, coupled with the conceit that Gohan's potential is greater than Goku's potential, in general, and I think I've got a pretty good case.

The problem of their gains isn't that much of a problem; Goku was already nearing his limits in the Cell Games Arc, to the point where he skipped over a year of training that he could have completed, Vegeta believes that Goku is a greater genius than he is, hence his limits should be somewhat lower than Goku's. All of our three Super Saiyans, Gohan included, seem to be generally in the same tier of power. Hell, even Trunks can land a hit on Vegeta, and he's below Gohan. This is despite Goku and Vegeta potentially making large gains and Gohan's power deteriorating significantly.

I don't think either Goku or Vegeta made particularly large gains; to reiterate, both of them were likely near maxed out during the Cell Games. Vegeta believed that he could defeat a trained Goku based on two assumptions - that Goku and he are equally talented and that he did more special training than Goku. The former appears to be incorrect, (which by the way, kind of cheapens Goku's superiority to him in the Cell Games) hence to achieve those expected conditions, he had to artificially increase his natural talent (via Babidi).

I would make the gap between Boo Arc Goku and Boo Arc Vegeta smaller than it was in the Cell Games, if only because Vegeta seems to have trained more efficiently than Goku.

 

[Lightsworn]

I believe Gohan's rage boost unlocked the Ssj2 form at the Cell Games, but obviously that's not everything he has. His potential is higher than Goku's and Vegeta's, so his enraged self should definitely surpass Ssj2 Goku and Majin Vegeta, which Goku and Vegeta state anyway.

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

I'm tired of this rage boost+ssj transformation nonsense. Transforming IS the fucking rage boost. The rage boost is one of the things that resulted in them transforming in the first place. There's no rage boost on top of a rage boost that's stupid

The solution is ssj2 being a 3x multiplier. You don't HAVE to by the SEG 2x multiplier and follow some some weird made up concept that makes no sense just to make it work

 

[Clearin]

The transformation is not the rage boost. It's made insanely clear.

 

[p123]

Gohan is stated to have a boost in power from rage in the manga.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

If Super Saiyan 2 and his rage boost are different things, is him achieving Super Saiyan 2 a coincidence?
Why does Vegeta attribute Gohan's decreased power to his lack of training alone?

 

[p123]

Gohan gets a miniscule rage boost as a Super Saiyan when the Cell Juniors are beating up his friends.

 

[ahill1]

I do not think it is necessary that Gohan has a 'rage boost ". Just have a big difference between Goku and Gohan and it's fine.

 

[Clearin]

[No message]

 

[p123]

Agreed 100% Clearin. I think AT just has an impossible task of trying to have them talk about both his inability to become a Ssj2 and his rage boost in the Buu Saga, it's too messy for AT to handle.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

[No message]

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Things are simple. AT built up all that thing with Gohan's rage to the point of him reaching a unique to him
form (SSJ2). Then, he retconned it into a form everybody and their mommas could get. That doesn't mean
a second rage boost was produced for Gohan.
If we have to give an in universe solution, i think the best choice is to discard Gohan's rage boosts after
Raditz Saga.