Rage Boost

[Clearin]

Starting with the Budokai Gohan always had one bang in Super Saiyan. Unless you thought he was a Super Saiyan 2 when Videl was getting beaten by Spopobitch, or when pulling out the Z sword.

Yes, I believe he was Super Saiyan 2 when Videl was getting beat up and when he pulled out the Z sword.

If he was SSj2 when Videl was getting beaten up why didn't he have sparks then? That was before he turned SSj2 for Kibito.

 

[ahill1]

Anyway, I'm more convinced now that he was receiving a rage boost.

Clearin, do you have Gohan as a Ssj2 or Ssj against Dabura?

Gohan cannot be SS2 against Dabra in my opinion. Majin Vegeta Super Saiyan is treated like Dabura and Gohan's superior. I don't think Majin Vegeta SS would be stronger than Gohan SS2. So Gohan was only a Super Saiyan against Dabra.

 

[Lightsworn]

Starting with the Budokai Gohan always had one bang in Super Saiyan. Unless you thought he was a Super Saiyan 2 when Videl was getting beaten by Spopobitch, or when pulling out the Z sword.

Yes, I believe he was Super Saiyan 2 when Videl was getting beat up and when he pulled out the Z sword.

If he was SSj2 when Videl was getting beaten up why didn't he have sparks then? That was before he turned SSj2 for Kibito.

Probably the same reason why Goku didnt have sparks when he was Super Saiyan 2 against Yakon or why Vegeta didn't have them before the took his senzu. I just don't think it's a necessity. Wasn't the whole argument this thread that Gohan's anger and Ssj2 are closely related? Or that one triggers the other. Which make more sense, that Gohan transforms into a form that he has complete control and mastery over, or the form that his anger triggered the last time ? It makes more sense to me that him raging out is causing him to transform to Ssj2. His one bang supports that imo.

 

[ahill1]

So Ssj Goku was suppressed when Badibi took a reading of him?

When Goku suppresses his Super Saiyan form his aura disappeares though.

Not quite... Goten and Trunks, in Kami's palace, were suppressed but they had auras.

 

[p123]

I'm definitely with the ragw boost theory now.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I don't see why Teen Gohan getting a rage boost in Super Saiyan 2 necessitates Kid Gohan having one (that's nebulous beyond the obvious increase) as well.

If you buy that rage boosts bring out Gohan's potential, all you need is SSJ2 was his full potential back then, now it's increased. According to Elder Kaioshin, Gohan has a huge amount of untapped potential. If he didn't, I could buy the kid Gohan (unrelated to SSJ2) rage boost.

Besides, Gohan was ready to lay the hurt on Cell after he came back, despite not looking particularly like an angry person, same goes for when he actually kills Cell. He obviously lost this supposed secondary rage boost when Goku died, and he realized that his aimless fury was nothing but destructive. What, he gets it back just by putting on a serious face and flaring his aura? He needed scream and start crying the first time. He smirks confidently while maintaining this rage? He's surprised that Cell can deal so much damage to him when he loses the most important part of his power? He certainly wasn't angry when he jumped in front of Vegeta, yet it's not his lack of anger that results in his injury, it's Cell's power.

Also of note is that Goku isn't telling Gohan to get angry again during the beam struggle, just to stop holding back and let his power explode.

Rage boost version:
"I'm doing my best, dad!"
"Get pissed you little brat! Kick that fucker's ass! Remember Icarus? He did it!"

Manga version:
"I'm doing my best, dad!"
"Stop holding back, Gohan! Let your power explode!"

Does this line make sense?
"Doesn't Vegeta helping out make you even more angry?"

Gohan's power increases when he gets angry, that's all I got from Vegeta's comment. Super Saiyan 2 was certainly a power increase.

I just don't buy his secondary rage boost being maintained through this entire complicated struggle. All he needs is to use all of the power he unlocked through his anger: the power of his Super Saiyan 2 form.

I could also say I don't understand what the point of his transformation is supposed to be. it just distracts from what's actually going on, apparently. What was the point of all the buildup to "surpassing Super Saiyan"? I realize Goku never said anything about that, but I don't think he needs to. It was the point of the whole arc.

 

[p123]

Rage Boost is not the most accurate way to put it. Gohan's anger allows him to be in control of his hidden power is how I would put it.

Once he unlocked it, he will able to tap into it again.

After years of not training, he lost the ability to tap into his hidden power, which of course most likely has grown considerably as he has aged.

So think of it this way.

It's not so much about the forms it's more about Gohan's hidden power. His hidden power is the main thing. His forms can hold but so much power, his power would have been the same whether it was at Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 against Cell, but his body had to become Super Saiyan 2 to handle the massive hidden power.

This is just a theory but I think it makes sense.

 

[ahill1]

Rage Boost is not the most accurate way to put it. Gohan's anger allows him to be in control of his hidden power is how I would put it.

Once he unlocked it, he will able to tap into it again.

After years of not training, he lost the ability to tap into his hidden power, which of course most likely has grown considerably as he has aged.

So think of it this way.

It's not so much about the forms it's more about Gohan's hidden power. His hidden power is the main thing. His forms can hold but so much power, his power would have been the same whether it was at Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 against Cell, but his body had to become Super Saiyan 2 to handle the massive hidden power.

This is just a theory but I think it makes sense.

Then show me your numbers please...

Cell Game

Vegeta
~ SSJ

Goku
~ SSJ

Gohan
~ SSJ
~ Enranged

Perfect Cell ( vs goku )
~ Real Speed
~ Full Power


Boo Saga

Vegeta
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2

Goku
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2

Gohan
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2
~ Hypothetical Enranged

Dabra

 

[Lightsworn]

I don't see why Teen Gohan getting a rage boost in Super Saiyan 2 necessitates Kid Gohan having one (that's nebulous beyond the obvious increase) as well.

If you buy that rage boosts bring out Gohan's potential, all you need is SSJ2 was his full potential back then, now it's increased. According to Elder Kaioshin, Gohan has a huge amount of untapped potential. If he didn't, I could buy the kid Gohan (unrelated to SSJ2) rage boost.

Besides, Gohan was ready to lay the hurt on Cell after he came back, despite not looking particularly like an angry person, same goes for when he actually kills Cell. He obviously lost this supposed secondary rage boost when Goku died, and he realized that his aimless fury was nothing but destructive. What, he gets it back just by putting on a serious face and flaring his aura? He needed scream and start crying the first time. He smirks confidently while maintaining this rage? He's surprised that Cell can deal so much damage to him when he loses the most important part of his power? He certainly wasn't angry when he jumped in front of Vegeta, yet it's not his lack of anger that results in his injury, it's Cell's power.

Also of note is that Goku isn't telling Gohan to get angry again during the beam struggle, just to stop holding back and let his power explode.

Rage boost version:
"I'm doing my best, dad!"
"Get pissed you little brat! Kick that fucker's ass! Remember Icarus? He did it!"

Manga version:
"I'm doing my best, dad!"
"Stop holding back, Gohan! Let your power explode!"

Does this line make sense?
"Doesn't Vegeta helping out make you even more angry?"

Gohan's power increases when he gets angry, that's all I got from Vegeta's comment. Super Saiyan 2 was certainly a power increase.

I just don't buy his secondary rage boost being maintained through this entire complicated struggle. All he needs is to use all of the power he unlocked through his anger: the power of his Super Saiyan 2 form.

I could also say I don't understand what the point of his transformation is supposed to be. it just distracts from what's actually going on, apparently. What was the point of all the buildup to "surpassing Super Saiyan"? I realize Goku never said anything about that, but I don't think he needs to. It was the point of the whole arc.

A few things to take note of:

•If it wasn't a rage boost, then what caused Gohan to gain power to instantly obliterate Cell?
•Wouldn't Gohan saying he's doing his "best" mean he's doing just that? And Goku saying that he's holding back have to do with him holding back his emotions and to just let them explode?

 

[p123]

It's not a rage boost, it's Gohan's hidden power. He can tap into it at will, even injured. He was merely holding back, his injuries have nothing to do with his hidden power apparently.

Yes and yes. Gohan was holding back.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

A few things to take note of:

•If it wasn't a rage boost, then what caused Gohan to gain power to instantly obliterate Cell?
•Wouldn't Gohan saying he's doing his "best" mean he's doing just that? And Goku saying that he's holding back have to do with him holding back his emotions and to just let them explode?

He's holding back, subconsciously because he's still demoralized. Vegeta putting aside his pride and interfering on his behalf restored his resolve.

What about that scene would make him angry, exactly? Sure Cell was trying to blow up the earth, but what exactly was the catalyst to turn him from not angry to angry? It didn't look like anger to me, just determination, and I don't believe it involved any hidden power (except him turning SSJ2), just standard shoki/yuki crap. You saw that with Vegeta vs Freeza.

 

[Lightsworn]

A few things to take note of:

•If it wasn't a rage boost, then what caused Gohan to gain power to instantly obliterate Cell?
•Wouldn't Gohan saying he's doing his "best" mean he's doing just that? And Goku saying that he's holding back have to do with him holding back his emotions and to just let them explode?

He's holding back, subconsciously because he's still demoralized. Vegeta putting aside his pride and interfering on his behalf restored his resolve.

What about that scene would make him angry, exactly? Sure Cell was trying to blow up the earth, but what exactly was the catalyst to turn him from not angry to angry? It didn't look like anger to me, just determination, and I don't believe it involved any hidden power (except him turning SSJ2), just standard shoki/yuki crap. You saw that with Vegeta vs Freeza.

He doesn't need to be angry necessarily, it could just happen in an emotional state. When Piccolo threw him at that mountain I don't think he was "angry" exactly, but he still tapped into his hidden powers.

 

[ahill1]

p123 convinced me... he's the best.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

A few things to take note of:

•If it wasn't a rage boost, then what caused Gohan to gain power to instantly obliterate Cell?
•Wouldn't Gohan saying he's doing his "best" mean he's doing just that? And Goku saying that he's holding back have to do with him holding back his emotions and to just let them explode?

He's holding back, subconsciously because he's still demoralized. Vegeta putting aside his pride and interfering on his behalf restored his resolve.

What about that scene would make him angry, exactly? Sure Cell was trying to blow up the earth, but what exactly was the catalyst to turn him from not angry to angry? It didn't look like anger to me, just determination, and I don't believe it involved any hidden power (except him turning SSJ2), just standard shoki/yuki crap. You saw that with Vegeta vs Freeza.

He doesn't need to be angry necessarily, it could just happen in an emotional state. When Piccolo threw him at that mountain I don't think he was "angry" exactly, but he still tapped into his hidden powers.

I suppose, but in that case, he'd die otherwise. It was self-preservation. I don't think Gohan cared about dying at this point. He had already given up and accepted death.

I just think him overcoming that "giving up" allowed him to fight at his full, regular SSJ2 power again.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Rage Boost is the only way to tap his SS2 or full potential in Cell Games.
Rage Boost is just an ordinary boost which is completely different from SS2 in Boo Arc.