Rage Boost

[p123]

Just watching some Z and that's what the narrator says. He brings up a good point. Essentially I think the concept is, Gohan's anger unlocks his hidden power and all these times before it would come and go in quick bursts. But this time, with all Gohan's specialized training now, he can control his hidden power.

Which would make Super Saiyan 2 merely a by product of his power.

I guess his power would be the same, but it's too powerful for Super Saiyan form to handle so he's forced to transform or something?

 

[Clearin]

I guess his power would be the same, but it's too powerful for Super Saiyan form to handle so he's forced to transform or something?

I think it's more simple than that. Super Saiyan transformations can be gained through anger, just like Goku and Vegeta did. Basically if that was Goku he would have also transformed if he got mad (assuming he had the minimum requirements of power, if such a thing exists). But what's the difference between Gohan's anger and Goku's? The rage boost. That's why nobody calls Goku's first Super Saiyan transformation a rage boost, despite the fact it was brought on by rage. Everyone knows rage only unlocked the form, while all the power came from Super Saiyan. When Gohan gets mad he gets more powerful, and when a Saiyan gets mad after meeting some kind of invisible requirement, they transform. The two things are separate, and only one is unique to Gohan. I don't see why the one every Saiyan experiences should negate the one only Gohan experiences, especially when it was Gohan's specific one that Goku was counting on.

 

[Lightsworn]

Just watching some Z and that's what the narrator says. He brings up a good point. Essentially I think the concept is, Gohan's anger unlocks his hidden power and all these times before it would come and go in quick bursts. But this time, with all Gohan's specialized training now, he can control his hidden power.

Which would make Super Saiyan 2 merely a by product of his power.

I guess his power would be the same, but it's too powerful for Super Saiyan form to handle so he's forced to transform or something?

So in your opinion after 7 years of not training, he lost the ability to control his rage? At the Budokai he can transform at will with no rage, but then Goku mentions he can still gain power through rage. Which to me means that initially Gohan was going to attack Cell in bursts like before but then Ssj2 was unlocked and he didn't need to anymore and then became calm again.

 

[ahill1]

Just watching some Z and that's what the narrator says. He brings up a good point. Essentially I think the concept is, Gohan's anger unlocks his hidden power and all these times before it would come and go in quick bursts. But this time, with all Gohan's specialized training now, he can control his hidden power.

Which would make Super Saiyan 2 merely a by product of his power.

I guess his power would be the same, but it's too powerful for Super Saiyan form to handle so he's forced to transform or something?

P, show me your numbers for:

Gohan ( Cell Games )
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2 ( Enranged )

Vegeta ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2

Goku ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2

Gohan ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ
~ SSJ2
~ SSJ2 ( Enranged )

Please...

 

[p123]

Yes, it's a different concept than what I'm used to but I believe it's all about controlled rage. Super Saiyan 2 is a byproduct of his controlled rage.

Gohan's extensive training is what has allowed him to achieve this ability. All he had to do was get angry enough to unlock it.

Now in the Buu Saga, without training, he cannot be how he was before. He can no longer control his rage, nor get angry enough to unlock it.

 

[ahill1]

Yes, it's a different concept than what I'm used to but I believe it's all about controlled rage. Super Saiyan 2 is a byproduct of his controlled rage.

Gohan's extensive training is what has allowed him to achieve this ability. All he had to do was get angry enough to unlock it.

Now in the Buu Saga, without training, he cannot be how he was before. He can no longer control his rage, nor get angry enough to unlock it.

p, show me your numbers please.

 

[p123]

How can I give you numbers before I have the basics worked out?

 

[ahill1]

How can I give you numbers before I have the basics worked out?

What do you mean? I just wanted to see your numbers with Gohan being Enranged. Show me them please.

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

Gohan turning ssj2 against cell was a rage boost plus the potential to become ssj2. Gohan turning ssj2 in the buu saga doesn't require a rage boost anymore because he has already unlocked it. Goku telling him to get angry like he did against cell and not just saying go ssj2 is like when vegeta got a rage boost as a ssj2(which he already unlocked) against beerus. Hope that makes sense. I think this is what basically what you were getting FutureProtagonist right?

 

[p123]

That's my point. I don't have them right now, I'm still not sure of what side of the fence I'm on.

I don't think Super Saiyan 2 made Gohan any stronger. I think Enraged Ssj Gohan = Enraged Ssj2 Gohan. It's the same power.

Super Saiyan 2 is merely a by product of Gohan's rage.

 

[Clearin]

That's my point. I don't have them right now, I'm still not sure of what side of the fence I'm on.

I don't think Super Saiyan 2 made Gohan any stronger. I think Enraged Ssj Gohan = Enraged Ssj2 Gohan. It's the same power.

Super Saiyan 2 is merely a by product of Gohan's rage.

This much I don't agree with myself. I see no reason SSj2 shouldn't have added onto his power to. A rage boost shouldn't replace power, it should only add on to existing power.

 

[ahill1]

Right now I heve:

Gohan ( Cell Games )
~ SSJ 54,000,000,000
~ SSJ2 135,000,000,000

Vegeta ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ 48,000,000,000
~ SSJ2 120,000,000,000

Goku ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ 60,000,000,000
~ SSJ2 150,000,000,000

Gohan ( Boo Saga )
~ SSJ 41,400,000,000
~ SSJ2 103,500,000,000

Is not bad, is it?

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

A rage boost will result in a transformation if it can. But because gohan had already unlocked ssj2(meaning no rage boost needed to transform anymore), goku wanted him to add a rage boost to his ssj2 like vegeta did against beerus or cell(against cell when trunks was killed, vegeta had already attained ssj1 and just wasn't ready for ssj2. Similar idea)

 

[Lightsworn]

That's my point. I don't have them right now, I'm still not sure of what side of the fence I'm on.

I don't think Super Saiyan 2 made Gohan any stronger. I think Enraged Ssj Gohan = Enraged Ssj2 Gohan. It's the same power.

Super Saiyan 2 is merely a by product of Gohan's rage.

This much I don't agree with myself. I see no reason SSj2 shouldn't have added onto his power to. A rage boost shouldn't replace power, it should only add on to existing power.

So you go with: Ssj2 Gohan Enraged (Cell Games) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Games) ?

 

[Clearin]

That's my point. I don't have them right now, I'm still not sure of what side of the fence I'm on.

I don't think Super Saiyan 2 made Gohan any stronger. I think Enraged Ssj Gohan = Enraged Ssj2 Gohan. It's the same power.

Super Saiyan 2 is merely a by product of Gohan's rage.

This much I don't agree with myself. I see no reason SSj2 shouldn't have added onto his power to. A rage boost shouldn't replace power, it should only add on to existing power.

So you go with: Ssj2 Gohan Enraged (Cell Games) > Ssj2 Gohan (Cell Games) ?

Yep, that's the idea. When Gohan gets mad he gets stronger, not due to a transformation, but because of a very specific thing unique to Gohan that was the entire focus of Goku's plan.

On the other hand when any Saiyan gets mad, assuming he's reached the right requirements (never specifically stated what they are) they transform into a Super Saiyan (+1 of whatever their previous best form is).

Add the two together and you get Gohan transforming into a Super Saiyan 2 due to his rage (something any Saiyan can do, and Goku and Vegeta have done before) and then Gohan gets his signature boosted power on top of it (something unique to Gohan - the focus of Goku's plan).

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

A rage boost is not unique to gohan. Vegeta has done it now too. Not sure if he got much stronger when cell killed trunks but against beerus for sure

Don't see how it makes a difference though. Refer to my previous posts above to see thoughts

 

[p123]

I was looking in a thread Vic made before.

No Rage Ssj2 Gohan ( Vegeta laughs at this power ) ( Goku witnessed this as well )

Raged Ssj2 Gohan ( Vegeta isn't sure how powerful he can become ) ( Goku says Gohan can be the strongest )

 

[Clearin]

A rage boost is not unique to gohan. Vegeta has done it now too. Not sure if he got much stronger when cell killed trunks but against beerus for sure

It was unique to him at the time, and would continue to be so for 20 years in real time. Goku could hardly count on Vegeta having a rage boost he wouldn't experience for the first time until 10-15 DBZ years had passed. At this point in the story rage boosts were specific to Gohan. Rage as a transformation however was not.

 

[p123]

Yea the point was never to surpass Super Saiyan, it was to get Gohan mad.

 

[Ssj3Gogeta96]

Well ssj2 wasn't apart of the plan because they didn't know what it was. They didn't know it would happen they just knew he could get really strong when pissed