Recent Chapter Discussion

[Papasmurf]

@Papasmurf So what would be the power chain between UI Goku (Initial), UI Goku (FP), Beast Gohan (Calm) and Beast Gohan (FP)? Where would Beast Gohan climb (Vs Cell Max)?

I can't be assed to reread the last chapter, but from what I do remember:

Beast Gohan (controlled rage) > UI Goku (FP/full effort) > Beast Gohan (initial) ~ UI Goku (initial)

I think Beast Gohan (vs. Cell Max) was around the calm level, and maybe raised it close to the controlled rage level when he shot the Makankosappo. I honestly didn't read the Super Hero adaptation chapters thoroughly so this is just going off of hazy memory.

 

[Future Warrior]

Gohan knew it was just a sparring match too. I don't think he was bloodlusted at all, nor trying to hurt Goku

Sparring match doesn't mean you don't try to win though.

 

[SIAD]

I can't be assed to reread the last chapter, but from what I do remember:

Beast Gohan (controlled rage) > UI Goku (FP/full effort) > Beast Gohan (initial) ~ UI Goku (initial)

I think Beast Gohan (vs. Cell Max) was around the calm level, and maybe raised it close to the controlled rage level when he shot the Makankosappo. I honestly didn't read the Super Hero adaptation chapters thoroughly so this is just going off of hazy memory.

I like it. @GreatSaiyaman123 What do you think?

 

[Papasmurf]

Sparring match doesn't mean you don't try to win though.

Goku still activated the full evasive ability of Ultra Instinct and even struggled to evade Gohan's blows. Not like Goku wasn't trying, even if his intent was to judge how strong Gohan was.

 

[SIAD]

@Papasmurf

By the way, UI Goku at the end of his fight against Beast Gohan (Controlled Rage), seemed to have a success in it.

Does that mean that UI Goku was a distant rival of Beast Gohan (Controlled Rage) and UI Goku's greater ability over Beast Gohan (Controlled Rage), did Goku have a chance of winning?

 

[Papasmurf]

So here's the question that's been asked before, but is made even more relevant by the existence of Chapter 103: Where the hell is TUI? Has Goku managed to tap into emotions while using the silver state, or was TUI just a spur of the moment thing for when he was too emotionally rattled to use the silver form?

 

[Future Warrior]

Has Goku managed to tap into emotions while using the silver state, or was TUI just a spur of the moment thing for when he was too emotionally rattled to use the silver form?

The latter probably.

 

[Papasmurf]

The latter probably.

Tbh that makes more sense. Goku being able to forcibly make himself emotional to power up Sign is pretty dumb, although Gohan did a similar thing when he raised his anger/power nearly to the point of rampaging and then retained control.

 

[Future Warrior]

I thought TUI was him making it his own which is why I found it weird that silver hair is still his main power up, but that arc was too much of a mess for me to understand it so whatever.

 

[Papasmurf]

Maybe he just realized TUI sucks as a form due to it being rooted on the unstable Sign form and focused on increasing his command of UI in the silver form.

Though tbh since the series is hinting at Goku finally passing the baton to his son's generation I'd have preferred it if he could just use Perfected Ultra Instinct in his base form or something. Seemed like what Whis was hinting at when he said using the UI technique as a transformation was a retarded way to use it.

But then that'd mean they couldn't sell more toys by cranking out new color change forms with Goku so that'll ultimately take precedence over coherent writing.

 

[Future Warrior]

They probably at least want to stay consistent with EoZ, which they will reach at some point I would think.

 

[Papasmurf]

They probably at least want to stay consistent with EoZ, which they will reach at some point I would think.

Whis frequently walks around without UI active so even if Goku perfected UI in base, you could just have him not resort to it so he could test Oob. And as for Goku still wanting to improve by sparring with Oob, Goku's never been one to settle for his current limits so even if he got to Angel tier UI mastery he'd still attempt to go even higher.

 

[Future Warrior]

I meant having silver hair all the time which I would assume is him combining it to base, but I don’t know.

Thats still not the case by EoZ. Unless he doesn’t need to change hair color to use its power.

 

[Papasmurf]

I meant having silver hair all the time which I would assume is him combining it to base, but I don’t know.

Thats still not the case by EoZ. Unless he doesn’t need to change hair color to use its power.

What I mean is that he could perfect the passive UI he displayed against Granolah to the extent that transforming becomes superfluous. Angels don't transform to harness UI, and Whis said that transforming is the wrong way to use the technique which is why Goku's stamina drains and with it his accuracy in performing the technique.

Honestly it seems like Goku hasn't made much progress at all during the 3-year timeskip, unless we're told that his mastery of UI in the silver form (and the power) > TUI from the Gas arc.

 

[SIAD]

Vegeta SSJB (Current) vs Broly SSJ FP (Current)? Who is more powerful?

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta SSJB (Current) vs Broly SSJ FP (Current)? Who is more powerful?

Broly easily. I don't think Vegeta sparring with Gohan without UE was anything close to a power indication, lest you think base Trunks and Goten are magically way stronger because they didn't visibly turn SSJ to spar.

In a more serious and non-one-off-panel depiction Gohan struggled to block SSJFP Broly's punch and commented on what power he has. Broly is currently definitely on UI/UE tier.

 

[Future Warrior]

We see Blue Goku doing that to Gas too.

We need to get over that type of scaling man. Seriously.

 

[SIAD]

Broly easily. I don't think Vegeta sparring with Gohan without UE was anything close to a power indication, lest you think base Trunks and Goten are magically way stronger because they didn't visibly turn SSJ to spar.

In a more serious and non-one-off-panel depiction Gohan struggled to block SSJFP Broly's punch and commented on what power he has. Broly is currently definitely on UI/UE tier.

So Broly's SSJFP multiplier must be gigantic.

Personally, I think Goku and Vegeta got a lot stronger in these years. I think that in DBS Hero, UI Goku, Mega Instinct Vegeta and Orange Piccolo, they are almost at the Gas level. Currently, UI Goku and Mega Instinct Vegeta are stronger than Beast Gohan (Vs Cell Max).

 

[SIAD]

Orange Piccolo vs Broly SSJFP (Current)?

Who is stronger and who would win?

 

[Papasmurf]

We see Blue Goku doing that to Gas too.

We need to get over that type of scaling man. Seriously.

Against Gas he at least had the excuse that he was activating passive UI and that UI gets stronger when used in conjunction with an SSJ form.