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Jiren one shots Roshi? I knew Roshi wasn't Hakaishin tier. I wonder how the chapter will explain Jiren Initial struggle with him. Either way, it will be BS.
Recent Chapter Discussion
- Thread starter Uchiha
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So, the new chapter's now translated.
Chadhan was badass with how he said he didn't need SSJ. Infinitely better than his anime self.
Roshi's hax was something that could be good in concept, as the idea of his centuries of battle experience trumping superior power could've been good had not only it not been a new addition, but something completely contradicting him fighting to a near-draw against Galu at the 21st TB. At least he wasn't cheating with the Mafuba, so slightly better than his anime self at least.
Goku being presented as having learned nothing from the philosophies of his teachers is quite disappointing, especially when his MSSJ training seemed to be an extension of Kaio's teachings, though considering he ignored all those lessons once his progression only became about getting the next Super Saiyan form, it's expected.
As for the other battles, I liked how Goku not being able to truly use Kaioken anymore and just a variant plugs some plot holes in why he didn't use it in previous arcs. Vegeta VS Toppo seems to solidify Base Toppo being PSSB tier.
Goku's way of achieving Ultra Instinct Omen was cheap, though at least it wasn't filled with all the numerous writing contrivances of his anime self (spectators being allowed to provide Genki, being worried the Genki-Dama may kill him when it can't harm the pure hearted, etc.) and it at least wasn't dragged on. Once more, manga's better than the anime.
Chadhan was badass with how he said he didn't need SSJ. Infinitely better than his anime self.
Roshi's hax was something that could be good in concept, as the idea of his centuries of battle experience trumping superior power could've been good had not only it not been a new addition, but something completely contradicting him fighting to a near-draw against Galu at the 21st TB. At least he wasn't cheating with the Mafuba, so slightly better than his anime self at least.
Goku being presented as having learned nothing from the philosophies of his teachers is quite disappointing, especially when his MSSJ training seemed to be an extension of Kaio's teachings, though considering he ignored all those lessons once his progression only became about getting the next Super Saiyan form, it's expected.
As for the other battles, I liked how Goku not being able to truly use Kaioken anymore and just a variant plugs some plot holes in why he didn't use it in previous arcs. Vegeta VS Toppo seems to solidify Base Toppo being PSSB tier.
Goku's way of achieving Ultra Instinct Omen was cheap, though at least it wasn't filled with all the numerous writing contrivances of his anime self (spectators being allowed to provide Genki, being worried the Genki-Dama may kill him when it can't harm the pure hearted, etc.) and it at least wasn't dragged on. Once more, manga's better than the anime.
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I knew Gohan would do something great.
I also liked Master Roshi schooling Goku and Goku still seemingly keeping conscious after attaining ultra-instinct, unlike the anime version which tried way too hard to be kewl.
Also Kefla admitted inferiority.
I also liked Master Roshi schooling Goku and Goku still seemingly keeping conscious after attaining ultra-instinct, unlike the anime version which tried way too hard to be kewl.
Also Kefla admitted inferiority.
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Link to the chapter? No Viz site because it is not allowed for me 
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Read the translated version. The Roshi stuff is just as bad as I thought. Roshi's power level apparently didn't go up it is just apparently a haxed technique he has that makes him untouchable, regardless of the power gap and general martial arts skills. (Where was this when Daimao conquered Earth? Where was this when Nappa and Vegeta threatened Earth? Where was this when Freeza and Cold showed up? Where was this when Cell? Where was this when Boo?)
Unlike the anime, Ultra Instinct doesn't appear to be a power up just an incredibly hacked martial arts technique.
Unlike the anime, Ultra Instinct doesn't appear to be a power up just an incredibly hacked martial arts technique.
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It could be that it's also still a power-up or Jiren saw Master Roshi fight before and adjusted for his level of power.
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2kewl4u said:
That is a lot of assuming......Roshi said it isn't all about power and Kahseral said that Roshi's battle power is very low. At least Toei knew that at a certain point skill becomes meaningless when the gap is huge.
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Master-Roshi said the gai was relying too much on his scouter thing, just like Vegeta said many times through-out DragonBall Z. They are unreliable when characters can adjust their power at-will. More likely a case of that. Master Roshi probably used his power in bursts, same way Goku did on Namek against the Ginyu-Force.Animelover5487 said:
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Skillful marksmanship with a ray gun >> SSB.Animelover5487 said:
:toei 2
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Reading the whole chapter and so far it's not too bad. It's just...I'm not quite sure I understand what happened with Gohan. Piccolo says he could only regain his battle sense in the lead-up to the tournament, which makes sense, but then Gohan got stronger during the fight with Kefla. That's basically what happened with Kefla and Goku's fight in the anime, pushing each other higher and higher, but it doesn't come across as clear here. This one point does seem rushed. Their fight is so abbreviated and mostly off-panel that it doesn't make either fighter look particularly good, and that's a shame, because this could have cemented Gohan as a monster.
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My guess is they're using Freeza's gains as a benchmark. If he can go from his Namek Arc level to SSB tier in 4 months and Gohan is the character who's whole shtick is his potential even in Super, I guess the maths work out somewhat with him going from his Ultimate level to >> PSSB tier after over half an hour of fighting by Super's logic.SSJ7 Gogeta said:
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Yeah, I'm not angry it happened, just that it felt incredibly rushed and sort of glossed over. Like "here's Gohan, now he's this strong all of a sudden at this moment, enjoy." Oh well.
So SSj Caulifla > True Form Freeza, and Golden Freeza >>> SSj Caulifla even while she's teaming up with SSj Cabba or Base Kale (or both as Freeza's confidence would imply). I'm going to assume BSSj Kale started out much stronger than SSj Caulifla, but weaker than CSSjB Goku and Golden Freeza, then her ki went up twice according to Goku, enough to overwhelm them power-wise. I think eventually, they'd be able to beat her, though, going by Vegeta's words about her being totally reliant on power and her moves being easy to read.
Man, lots of shit to digest with these past couple chapters. I should really try to keep up.
So SSj Caulifla > True Form Freeza, and Golden Freeza >>> SSj Caulifla even while she's teaming up with SSj Cabba or Base Kale (or both as Freeza's confidence would imply). I'm going to assume BSSj Kale started out much stronger than SSj Caulifla, but weaker than CSSjB Goku and Golden Freeza, then her ki went up twice according to Goku, enough to overwhelm them power-wise. I think eventually, they'd be able to beat her, though, going by Vegeta's words about her being totally reliant on power and her moves being easy to read.
Man, lots of shit to digest with these past couple chapters. I should really try to keep up.
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I am not even reading the manga anymore because I dislike it. Whilst it can still try to make sense, the Super anime was at least fun with its attempts. The manga just hasn't any redeeming qualities to me, I really hate it. Not reading it anymore, I guess.
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Manga's at least ~5 minutes of brain damage per month as opposed to the 20 a week.
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I really liked Roshi this chapter. Teaching a lesson to Goku and finally making him understand how to beat Jiren. Also, manly GAINZ 
That being said, Gohan vs Kefla sucked. Gohan's whole "Fighting as a earthling" speech lack weight when 90% of the fight was off screen. Talking about off screen fights, Vegeta vs Toppo being nothing but a couple panels scattered around the chapters of them beating each other sucks.
That being said, Gohan vs Kefla sucked. Gohan's whole "Fighting as a earthling" speech lack weight when 90% of the fight was off screen. Talking about off screen fights, Vegeta vs Toppo being nothing but a couple panels scattered around the chapters of them beating each other sucks.
