Roshi's max power state

[Future Warrior]

He's the only human who buffs himself up like this, and I was curious what the deal was with that. Is he accessing all the power he's gained in his lifetime? Does it surpass Piccolo Daimao but is incapable of fighting properly in it?

 

[SSJ2]

The description in the Daizenshuu is vague, but it makes it sound as though it works similarly to Grade 3.

Spoiler

I don't think there's anything special about it aside from the fact that he is using his ki to pump up his muscles. As for Piccolo Daimao, I'd highly doubt it even when Roshi was in his prime.

Chapter: 135, P6.1
Kame-sennin: “Despite the cute name, he was an outrageously fearsome person…His strength was extremely overwhelming…[ ] He was an opponent we were utterly unable to oppose; not only my younger self or Tsuru-sennin, but even our master, Mutaito. ”

Chapter: 142, P3.6
Context: Kame-sennin, Tenshinhan, and co. search for the dragonballs
Kame-sennin: “But we have no chance of winning if we run into them directly! Our only chance is to take advantage of an opening, steal the dragonballs, and leave it to Shenlong…ask him to destroy Daimao.”

Roshi makes it pretty clear that they can't beat him without stealing the Dragon Balls. A Taiyoken + Roshi Kamehameha wasn't even considered an option.

 

[Future Warrior]

Point me to where Taiyoken + XYZ was ever a strategy.

 

[SSJ2]

Does it really matter though? The statement blatantly states that the Dragon Balls are the only solution to Piccolo, so naturally that should mean every possible combination of attack will fail. Roshi also makes that clear by saying that the group would stand no chance even if they ganged up on him. Roshi knew that even if Piccolo was distracted in battle, his best wouldn't be good enough to defeat him.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Along with what SSJ2 said, the Tenkaichi games also state that he can't maintain the form long due to his age, suggesting it's taxing on the stamina in a manner like Grade 3 (until Roshi's secret training, that is ). Cell's comment on how simplistic Trunks' transformation is also suggests it's the same principle but with less of a speed loss, which fits in line with a lot of the expert techniques that took the two Sennin long to hone such as the Kamehameha and Bukujutsu becoming Ki usage 101 in Z.

 

[Future Warrior]

Does it really matter though? The statement blatantly states that the Dragon Balls are the only solution to Piccolo, so naturally that should mean every possible combination of attack will fail. Roshi also makes that clear by saying that the group would stand no chance even if they ganged up on him. Roshi knew that even if Piccolo was distracted in battle, his best wouldn't be good enough to defeat him.

I'm not dismissing your argument, you could be totally right. The Taiyoken part just doesn't really do anything for me since that isn't something they would come up with in the first place.

Along with what SSJ2 said, the Tenkaichi games also state that he can't maintain the form long due to his age, suggesting it's taxing on the stamina in a manner like Grade 3 (until Roshi's secret training, that is ). Cell's comment on how simplistic Trunks' transformation is also suggests it's the same principle but with less of a speed loss, which fits in line with a lot of the expert techniques that took the two Sennin long to hone such as the Kamehameha and Bukujutsu becoming Ki usage 101 in Z.

It's just curious that if it was in the same principle as the Grade forms then why would he use it in the first place, since it's a technique that isn't suitable for combat.

I was thinking more along the lines of Freeza's 100% power state. Roshi's buff state is his uninhibited full power but due to his old age it's something that is taxing on the body. It's possible he continued to get FAR stronger after the rein of Daimao. Or maybe his buff state is as strong as his ''young'' self, which is still weaker than Mutaito.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm not dismissing your argument, you could be totally right. The Taiyoken part just doesn't really do anything for me since that isn't something they would come up with in the first place.

That was just an example I came up with. If you take Roshi's statement at face value, a full power Kikoho from Tenshinhan, a full power KHH from Roshi, etc, shouldn't be capable of doing anything to Piccolo Daimao. Taiyoken + KHH was the cheapest attack I could think of.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I like to think Roshi is trying to draw from the power he used to have in his youth, but at his old age his fragiel body can't tap into that power without deforming.

[mention]Super Saiyan[/mention] do you think Roshi's Kamehameha could have killed Oozaru Goku? If so, does that mean Piccolo > Oozaru Goku?

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

He's harnessing the full power of Ultra Instinct, unfortunately like Moro his body can't handle the power.

 

[SSJ2]

[mention]GreatSaiyaman123[/mention] Maybe. The fact that Roshi says destroying the moon was the only way to stop Goku makes me wonder if he could. Either way, of course Piccolo is above Oozaru Goku. What lol

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Maybe. The fact that Roshi says destroying the moon was the only way to stop Goku makes me wonder if he could. Either way, of course Piccolo is above Oozaru Goku. What lol

I mean, killing his student off is hardly an option. Yamcha also thought it could kill Goku, and he seems to have a very crude Ki sensing ability already.

Why of course? There’s no evidence for it.

 

[SSJ2]

Oozaru Goku's best feat was destroying part of the Budokai's stage/building. Piccolo was able to wipe out a city with the flick of his wrist.

No evidence. Lol

 

[Future Warrior]

Beating Grandpa Gohan as a version that's weaker than the 21st Budokai is the only feat he has.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Oozaru Goku's best feat was destroying part of the Budokai's stage/building. Piccolo was able to wipe out a city with the flick of his wrist.

No evidence. Lol

Goku at no point in the series destroys a city waving his hand. Guess he never reached Piccolo’s level either…

I’ll make a thread on the vs sub. Want to get to the bottom of this…

 

[SSJ2]

10/10 logic.

 

[Spiral-Force]

Well his MAX Power Kamehameha utilises all of his ki; not just on a surface level, but also all of his dormant energy. So bulking up like that is just his way of pushing his body to be capable of this.

He becomes more versatile with the form in FnF/Super by using it for H2H combat as well.

 

[Future Warrior]

Well his MAX Power Kamehameha utilises all of his ki; not just on a surface level, but also all of his dormant energy. So bulking up like that is just his way of pushing his body to be capable of this.

He becomes more versatile with the form in FnF/Super by using it for H2H combat as well.

He's talking about the Kamehameha in general. Nothing to do with Roshi's max power state.

 

[Spiral-Force]

He's talking about the Kamehameha in general.

He specifically refers to how Roshi's KHH works; that's made quite clear from the manga panel.

Nothing to do with Roshi's max power state.

It has everything to do with it. Yamcha made that statement right after Roshi entered that state, prior to the latter even getting into the KHH stance. He knows what purpose it serves.

 

[ahill1]

^ Shoudn't Kame-Sennin bulk up everytime he uses the KMHMH then?

 

[Future Warrior]

He specifically refers to how Roshi's KHH works; that's made quite clear from the manga panel.

It has everything to do with it. Yamcha made that statement right after Roshi entered that state, prior to the latter even getting into the KHH stance. He knows what purpose it serves.

No it doesn't. It doesn't imply that he's referring to a version that only Roshi is able to do. The legendary move is the Kamehameha. You're heavily misinterpreting it.