Shall the fight Base Trunks vs Eighteen...

[FutureProtagonist]

#18 was only told to be suppressed against some Earthlings. Why should she be suppressed against a ridiculously powerful guy like base Trunks? There's not statement during the fight that proves she was suppressed. Why would she suppress herself to his exact level of power instead of a bit higher so she could one-shot him?

She doesn't know Mighty Mask is base Trunks. The only thing she's seen him do is one shot Killa, something BoDB Goku could probably do.

She should have had his power gauged the second they engaged one another. If she's way above them, she would have ended the fight right there.

How important is it that Trunks knows how strong she is? As far as I can tell, he does; he explains that she used to be stronger than their fathers, and it seems that they know exactly how strong their attack should be to finish her off without killing her. Goten and Trunks are perhaps cocky, but I just don't understand why they would challenge her in base, unless they were stronger. As far as I can tell, they didn't expect her to recognize them once they transformed, but they apparently also didn't expect the suit to hinder them so much.

To me, that should indicate that Trunks is stronger than her in base as long as he's not wearing the suit.

As for your second point, if "everyone" isn't in the original, then I don't see enough proof to say Vegeta knew Piccolo was entering when he made the statement saying he'd stay in base and win.

I didn't say it wasn't, I don't know what's in the original. Both of those lines were from Viz.

 

[p123]

Why suppress to a level where she is getting blocked the whole time?

 

[Lightsworn]

#18 was only told to be suppressed against some Earthlings. Why should she be suppressed against a ridiculously powerful guy like base Trunks? There's not statement during the fight that proves she was suppressed. Why would she suppress herself to his exact level of power instead of a bit higher so she could one-shot him?

She doesn't know Mighty Mask is base Trunks. The only thing she's seen him do is one shot Killa, something BoDB Goku could probably do.

She should have had his power gauged the second they engaged one another. If she's way above them, she would have ended the fight right there.

Do you admit that 18 thinks that mighty mask is only some strong human? If so then I think it's pretty factual that she would not attack at full power, otherwise she would kill him. Which is the best evidence I would say to support that she suppressed.

Tien is far stronger than Yamcha and didn't instantly end his fight him like you claim would happen with 18 and Trunks, so the same could be applicable with 18 and Trunks. Also, perhaps 18 was just being cautious as to not kill Trunks. She showed earlier that she has a bit of trouble suppressing to an exact extent with the punching machine, so perhaps she wanted to get a better grasp of their power by fighting them for a bit so she could know the exact extent that she needs to increase. When Piccolo fought Krillin, he thought he put too much power and killed him, so that could be the same reason 18 was hesitant. Also, Piccolo didn't instantly defeat Krillin in their fight despite being able to easily do so.

The point is that there is enough evidence to prove that 18 would not attack at full power. The rest of their fight is up for interpretation, however that shouldn't override the strong evidence that 18 wouldn't attack at full power.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I don't think #18's thoughts should preclude her attacking at full power; all that should matter is the kind of resistance she's getting. She doesn't seem to be one who'd judge someone by their race or whatever. I mean if someone like Kaioshin can show up out of nowhere, why not someone like Trunks too?

Tenshinhan was a bit of saddist and liked to play around with his opponents. You could argue #18 was holding back against Trunks for the same reasons, as it is within her character (maybe not the saddistic part), but it doesn't make sense in that particular context IMO. She didn't seem to be having that much fun either.

 

[Lightsworn]

I don't think #18's thoughts should preclude her attacking at full power; all that should matter is the kind of resistance she's getting. She doesn't seem to be one who'd judge someone by their race or whatever. I mean if someone like Kaioshin can show up out of nowhere, why not someone like Trunks too?

Tenshinhan was a bit of saddist and liked to play around with his opponents. You could argue #18 was holding back against Trunks for the same reasons, as it is within her character (maybe not the saddistic part), but it doesn't make sense in that particular context IMO. She didn't seem to be having that much fun either.

That makes it hard to imagine considering when even in a match with Super Saiyan Vegeta where he threatened to kill her, she still didn't give it anywhere near her all initially. So why would she in a no killing tournament against some random? She will be disqualified from the Budokai if she kills her opponent and Krilline even told her not to kill anyone. I don't see one good reason why 18 would even think about attacking at full power, since the price of that is killing her opponent which will get her disqualified. I don't think that's a risk she'd take.

 

[p123]

She was doing better against Vegeta than she was against Mighty Mask. She was only able to land like one hit. And after doing so, she walked away from the exchange feeling her opponent was strong. She never felt Vegeta was strong like Trunks.

 

[Lightsworn]

She was doing better against Vegeta than she was against Mighty Mask. She was only able to land like one hit. And after doing so, she walked away from the exchange feeling her opponent was strong. She never felt Vegeta was strong like Trunks.

Vegeta actually landed a hit on her and damaged her. 18 was the one who damaged Trunks and smacked him around. It's a poor comparison honestly.

 

[p123]

Trunks was blocking all of her punches while being basically immobile. Imagine if Trunks could use his speed and agility. It would be bad news for #18 imo.

 

[Lightsworn]

Against a suppressed 18, that doesn't prove much.

 

[p123]

There's no reason for her to be suppressed to a point where she's barely winning.

 

[Lightsworn]

There's no reason for her to be suppressed to a point where she's barely winning.

I can say the same for Tien vs Yamcha or Tien vs Roshi

 

[p123]

Sure, always assume full power.

 

[Lightsworn]

I've already provided evidence why she didn't attack at full power. What you said doesn't even contradict the whole Tien vs Yamcha situation. I might as well claim 18 attacked Jewel at full power.

 

[p123]

It does actually. Fighters are assumed to be at full power unless otherwise stated. Nothing suggested Android 18 had tons of power to spare.

 

[Lightsworn]

It does actually. Fighters are assumed to be at full power unless otherwise stated. Nothing suggested Android 18 had tons of power to spare.

Except all the evidence I posted that would indicate she would not use full power which again you have ignored.

So again, 18 used used full power on Jewel.

 

[p123]

That's fine Kid Buu was full power against Hercule. You can hold back using full power. Clearly she did on Jewel.

 

[Lightsworn]

The she "clearly" held back on Trunks. That was easy.

 

[ahill1]

Do you still think she was suppressed to a "strong human" level when she smashed Goten and trunks into the ground? lol.

 

[p123]

What suggests he held back on Trunks?

 

[Lightsworn]

[No message]