Show me reasons why Goku Ssj3 (Boo) > Goku Base (Post-God)won't work
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Base Goku completely destroyed Beers' most powerful attack.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku was nothing but a joke to Beers.
Super Saiyan 3 Goku was nothing but a joke to Beers.
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^Basically this. Also...
- Kuririn stated that Base Goku (FnF) was stronger than he'd ever seen him before. This would without a doubt include sensing him as a SS3.
- Cabba remarked on SSB Vegeta's power prior to being hit by it, proving he can sense God Ki, plus Vegeta told Cabba to train to surpass that level of power (not mentioning any training beyond the norm). From this, it's more than apparent that Cabba, as well as the other U6 fighters via scaling, should be on God level.
- Kuririn stated that Base Goku (FnF) was stronger than he'd ever seen him before. This would without a doubt include sensing him as a SS3.
- Cabba remarked on SSB Vegeta's power prior to being hit by it, proving he can sense God Ki, plus Vegeta told Cabba to train to surpass that level of power (not mentioning any training beyond the norm). From this, it's more than apparent that Cabba, as well as the other U6 fighters via scaling, should be on God level.
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I honestly haven't seen anything that puts the none god characters above Super Perfect Cell seeing as Piccolo is still somewhat comparable to them .-.
Characters I'm referring to when I say god characters-
SSG Goku
SSB Goku and Vegeta
Whis, Beerus, Champa and Vados
Gold Frieza
and apparently Hit is op also.
Characters I'm referring to when I say god characters-
SSG Goku
SSB Goku and Vegeta
Whis, Beerus, Champa and Vados
Gold Frieza
and apparently Hit is op also.
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First Form Freeza was heavily implied to be above SSj3 Gotenks.In the Boo Arc,when Gohan was about to fight Boo,Goten and Trunks tries to fuse again because they're worried for Gohan.In ROF,they didn't even think of fusing again.
SSj3 Gotenks < 1st Form Freeza <<<<< Final Form Freeza < Base Goku [Champa Arc]
SSj3 Gotenks < 1st Form Freeza <<<<< Final Form Freeza < Base Goku [Champa Arc]
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People with abilities that can/have tapped into Saiyan God power can absorb any energy attack.Evil Vegeta said:
Beerus was playing the entire time, it wasn't his most powerful attack.
So this reason isn't an issue.
-Kuririn cannot sense God tier power, so immediately, your argument is dismissed.Captain Cadaver said:
-Nowhere is it stated that underdogs can sense god tier power.
I need something more concrete than speculation.
By the time they showed up, Gotenks defused, so no.SSJ3 Vegeta said:
If Goku Base Post God is around Goku SSj3 strength, he would be stronger than Gotenks anyways, since that's what Toriyama & Super imply.
Come on guys, think of something.
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Except he didn't absorb anything. He completely obliterated it with a punch after Beers thought he was done for. That was all Base Goku there.
It's Beers' strongest attack ever shown. Either way, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is still nothing. The most he did was get beat by a non-serious Beers that used less than 10% of his power. He used far more power in that attack than he did against Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
The only one that couldn't be sensed was Super Saiyan Blue Goku. It's noted that his Chi could no longer be sensed when he transformed.
It's Beers' strongest attack ever shown. Either way, Super Saiyan 3 Goku is still nothing. The most he did was get beat by a non-serious Beers that used less than 10% of his power. He used far more power in that attack than he did against Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
The only one that couldn't be sensed was Super Saiyan Blue Goku. It's noted that his Chi could no longer be sensed when he transformed.
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Beerus knew Goku wasn't at his full Saiyan God power because Whiss confirms it as a fact down the road. Beerus has been shown to lie.
So there's no problems with anything so far.
No Saiyan God was ever noted as being sensed. Don't even fucking try to suggest that. Bring a statement where a character says he's sensing a God tier fighter, otherwise its just bullshit.
So there's no problems with anything so far.
No Saiyan God was ever noted as being sensed. Don't even fucking try to suggest that. Bring a statement where a character says he's sensing a God tier fighter, otherwise its just bullshit.
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Beers thought Goku was finished and says as much when he's struggling to stop the attack. Super Saiyan Goku was even scared of the attack despite merging with the God Power. Super Saiyan Goku with the God Power is far beyond Super Saiyan 3, with Base Goku right behind. It's also stated by Goku that he didn't really feel any weaker after losing Super Saiyan God. Base Goku destroying Beers' attack isn't something you can ignore.
When Super Saiyan God ended, Piccolo immediately sensed Goku's Chi. The only time they can't sense them is when they're Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue. Then again, Final Form Freeza sensed Super Saiyan Blue Goku, so it's all odd.
When Super Saiyan God ended, Piccolo immediately sensed Goku's Chi. The only time they can't sense them is when they're Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue. Then again, Final Form Freeza sensed Super Saiyan Blue Goku, so it's all odd.
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Everything about Goku Base/Ssj (Post-God) comparing to the likes of his form Saiyan God self is immediately contradicted by Whiss, whom infers that Goku is like an ant compared to that level of power.
I'm looking for concrete evidence, because I really see no reason why this wouldn't work. It makes Piccolo's gains for the Universal Arc more reasonable and allows people like Good Boo to be reliable in terms of battle power.
I'm looking for concrete evidence, because I really see no reason why this wouldn't work. It makes Piccolo's gains for the Universal Arc more reasonable and allows people like Good Boo to be reliable in terms of battle power.
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Whis also said Goku and Vegeta had grown strong enough to the point where they could sense God Chi. They weren't able to sense God Chi at any point before this.
That automatically puts them well above their previous powers by far. If that isn't concrete evidence, then nothing will be.
That automatically puts them well above their previous powers by far. If that isn't concrete evidence, then nothing will be.
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Kuririn also practically stated he was an ant compared to Reacoom/Butta/Jheese, despite being over 1/4 of their power. Using Whis' statement to the extreme in order to place Goku ridiculously weaker than the Gods is hardly necessary.
Kuririn sensed Base Goku (FnF) and stated he'd never sensed Goku be as strong as he was there. He also sensed SS3 Goku against Majin Boo. Even if we were to say Goku isn't on God level (which with what the Super anime has shown, is ridiculous), I don't see how anyone could seriously believe that SS3 Goku > Base Goku (Post-God) at this point.
Cabba clearly sensed SSB Vegeta. He explicitly stated that "If I train, I could get this kind of amazing power?!" to Vegeta in response to Vegeta telling him to train to get SSB. This was prior to being hit by Vegeta, so the only way Cabba would know of SSB's power enough to call it amazing would be by sensing it.
Nerfing Goku's lower forms does make things more reasonable, but also contradicts practically everything we've seen so far in Super. I doubt Toei or Toriyama care that much about how big of an increase Piccolo gets in regard to laws and logic, when they've blatantly contradicted such ideals multiple times within the canon.
Kuririn sensed Base Goku (FnF) and stated he'd never sensed Goku be as strong as he was there. He also sensed SS3 Goku against Majin Boo. Even if we were to say Goku isn't on God level (which with what the Super anime has shown, is ridiculous), I don't see how anyone could seriously believe that SS3 Goku > Base Goku (Post-God) at this point.
Cabba clearly sensed SSB Vegeta. He explicitly stated that "If I train, I could get this kind of amazing power?!" to Vegeta in response to Vegeta telling him to train to get SSB. This was prior to being hit by Vegeta, so the only way Cabba would know of SSB's power enough to call it amazing would be by sensing it.
Nerfing Goku's lower forms does make things more reasonable, but also contradicts practically everything we've seen so far in Super. I doubt Toei or Toriyama care that much about how big of an increase Piccolo gets in regard to laws and logic, when they've blatantly contradicted such ideals multiple times within the canon.
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With the addition of Super Saiyan God Blue, sure. They are now capable of sensing that type of energy, having entered the realm with a particular transformation, but it isn't a strength related statement at all. We don't know when they achieved SSJGB so my viewpoint on this matter is still consistent.
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The Oracle Fish notes Vegeta's ability to sense God Chi when Vegeta senses Whis arrive back on the planet. Vegeta had already been training with Whis for awhile and Goku even says Vegeta's new refined power is likely greater than his own.
What Whis said was before their training began. It means they're beyond their previous levels before Goku and Vegeta started training with Whis.
What Whis said was before their training began. It means they're beyond their previous levels before Goku and Vegeta started training with Whis.
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After Whiss arrives, he confirms that Vegeta doesn't even compare to the likes of Saiyan God fighters.
The only way for the Saiyans to be within the realm of God tier fighters is to be an actual Saiyan God themselves. Having the ability to sense their presence doesn't necessarily mean they surpassed the previous Saiyan God. Goku's statement towards Vegeta is only applicable to his current Base form, which according to my theory, is weaker than his SSj3 form.
The only way for the Saiyans to be within the realm of God tier fighters is to be an actual Saiyan God themselves. Having the ability to sense their presence doesn't necessarily mean they surpassed the previous Saiyan God. Goku's statement towards Vegeta is only applicable to his current Base form, which according to my theory, is weaker than his SSj3 form.
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Whis says they've reached a level where they could now sense God Chi.
Goku could not sense Beers or Whis at all beforehand, nor could Vegeta.
There's no point in saying someone might be stronger than you if they're not. It totally defeats the purpose of the statement.
Being able to sense a God requires them to be far beyond what they were entering BoG, which they are before the two train with Whis. In the six months of training with Whis, Vegeta went from being unable to gauge a God to being able to do it. Goku was able to because the God Power that he merged with. Whis' castle comparison in no way implies they're not already far stronger than before--just not in the realm of Beers and himself.
Goku could not sense Beers or Whis at all beforehand, nor could Vegeta.
There's no point in saying someone might be stronger than you if they're not. It totally defeats the purpose of the statement.
Being able to sense a God requires them to be far beyond what they were entering BoG, which they are before the two train with Whis. In the six months of training with Whis, Vegeta went from being unable to gauge a God to being able to do it. Goku was able to because the God Power that he merged with. Whis' castle comparison in no way implies they're not already far stronger than before--just not in the realm of Beers and himself.
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Yes, it does. Whis said they've gotten to a level where they could sense God Chi, but that level alone isn't enough. You don't think Base Goku or Vegeta is close, but Super Saiyan 3 Goku is actually behind that.
You'd have a point if you could show pre-ritual Goku or Vegeta sensing God Chi in the BoG arc.
Anyway, what exactly is your reason for having Super Saiyan 3 Goku superior?
You'd have a point if you could show pre-ritual Goku or Vegeta sensing God Chi in the BoG arc.
Anyway, what exactly is your reason for having Super Saiyan 3 Goku superior?
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Whiss made an actual strength related statement and said they didn't compare to the level of God, so I'm going to role with that. There's nothing wrong with it and it's still completely self consistent.
Because Goku's natural limits are that of Super Saiyan 3, he cannot get stronger without a transformation, even the end of the Manga's serialization recognizes this. Make no mistake, Super is definitely tying in with EOZ and Goku will probably end up fighting Oob at some point and once that happens, my theory should be confirmed.
Because Goku's natural limits are that of Super Saiyan 3, he cannot get stronger without a transformation, even the end of the Manga's serialization recognizes this. Make no mistake, Super is definitely tying in with EOZ and Goku will probably end up fighting Oob at some point and once that happens, my theory should be confirmed.
