Show me reasons why Goku Ssj3 (Boo) > Goku Base (Post-God)won't work

[Evil Vegeta]

That same quote you're citing also says they've reached a level where they can now sense God Chi. How do you reach a level to do something you couldn't do before? By gaining power. You're accepting a half of the quote and completely disregarding the other half.

Okay, but Goku after merging with the God Power is without a doubt stronger than Super Saiyan 3. Merging with the God Power opened up a whole new dimension of power for Goku, with Vegeta's six months of training with Whis doing pretty much the same.

 

[kriss-]

They only reached God tier power by using SSJGB, Goku confirmed this. This means he wasn't at that level beforehand and Whiss conforms this idea as well.

Once Oob fights Base Goku in Db Super, then my theory is undoubtedly proven. Toriyama has stated in three separate interviews that Goku was at his peak during the Boo Saga and was unable to get any stronger, so it doesn't make sense for him to be radically different in only his Base form, without resulting to a transformation to surpass his previous SSj3 self.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

But they reached a level that gave them the power to sense God Chi. They could not sense God Chi at all beforehand, so that means Goku and Vegeta at the beginning of their training with Whis exceed their previous levels.

I already explained why Base Goku was different. He absorbed the God Power. Super Saiyan 3 is no longer relevant after he got rinsed on Kaio's planet.

 

[kriss-]

Beerus was toying with Goku the entire time and has been known to lie, so we can't always take what he says as absolute fact. The more reliable Whiss, confirmed that they weren't anywhere near God tier power in their Base forms.

You're free to ignore his statement, but don't act like I have to as well.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Well, you're ignoring a half of the statement and only putting emphasis on the part that doesn't clash with your theory. Telling a lie in a certain instance does not mean he's always going to tell a lie. Goku said he didn't feel any weaker now that Super Saiyan God wore off and Beers assumed he must've merged with the power. Are you going to say Goku's telling a lie about his own power?

You can say Base Goku is far weaker than "God Level", but we know for a fact Super Saiyan 3 is as well. The point of this topic is to prove why Super Saiyan 3 can't be stronger than Base Goku after fighting with Beers. We have Whis saying they (Goku and Vegeta) have reached a level where they can sense God Chi. This means that they couldn't sense God Chi beforehand because they weren't at a level capable of doing it before reaching the level Whis is referring to.

Therefore, Super Saiyan 3 Goku>Base Goku is just inaccurate altogether.

 

[kriss-]

I'm not ignoring your statement either, they are capable of sensing that type of energy because of their higher Super Saiyan forms, which is changing into the Super Saiyan God Blue transformation. Whiss's statement comes afterwards, so it has to be incorporated into this logic as well, which basically proves what I'm saying.

To say anything else is to ignore End Of Z, which will surely be depicted within Dragonball Super and this will evidently prove that I was correct the entire time.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Whis's statement (reaching the level where they could sense God Chi) is made before their real training even began. Super Saiyan Blue didn't exist when Whis said what he said.

 

[kriss-]

I meant to say Super Saiyan in general, which would essentially be 50x Goku SSj3. They would be close enough to that tier of power to be capable of sensing it, but not comparable to it at all in only their base form.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

They were no longer using Super Saiyan 2 or 3. When Whis said they need to focus on raising the power in their Base forms, Whis says they probably realized that because neither bothered to transform.

So Super Saiyan in general really doesn't have anything to do with the changes they experienced. It's something that happened because they've gotten a lot stronger in general. Goku got a lot stronger because he absorbed the God Power, and Vegeta got a lot stronger because he trained with Whis alone for six months. There'd be no reason for Goku to ever use Super Saiyan 3 when his Base is now a lot more powerful and leaves it in the dust.

 

[kriss-]

I was referring to Super Saiyan.

Toriyama stated that they can make more increases by training in their Base and Super Saiyan form, so it's still a relevant pedestal for this thread and the purposes I am intending to use it for. There is no other alternative solution other than this because their Base power is useless and it doesn't compare to the likes of God tier power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Both can sense God Chi in their Base forms. The transformations don't really change that.

Let's keep this really simple: can BoG Goku as a Super Saiyan 3 sense God Chi?

Can Goku sense God Chi after he merged with the power of Super Saiyan God?

 

[kriss-]

Did Whiss say they don't compare to the likes of God tier power?

At this point, it's subjective and both points are correct. However, once Db Super reaches End Of Z and Goku Base Post God struggles with Oob, than my point will be the correct one. You're free to disagree with me until that happens I suppose.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Yes. We also know Super Saiyan 3, Super Vegito, Gogeta, Gohan, Gotenks, and everyone isn't God tier, either.

My point? Goku does not have to be as strong as his Super Saiyan God level to easily eclipse Super Saiyan 3 Goku and everyone else from the Boo saga. Does that make more sense?

Goku didn't look like he was really struggling with Oob. He was just trying to piss him off so he could reveal his power. It wasn't like it was a real fight.

 

[Son Gokū]

WON'T work?
Uhhhhhhh...

 

[kriss-]

Yes. We also know Super Saiyan 3, Super Vegito, Gogeta, Gohan, Gotenks, and everyone isn't God tier, either.

My point? Goku does not have to be as strong as his Super Saiyan God level to easily eclipse Super Saiyan 3 Goku and everyone else from the Boo saga. Does that make more sense?

Goku didn't look like he was really struggling with Oob. He was just trying to piss him off so he could reveal his power. It wasn't like it was a real fight.

I'm not sure what Manga you read, but Goku was clearly losing. EOZ Goku is basically the same as SSj3 Goku, but without the stamina loss.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Goku wasn't losing at all. He said he just wanted to see Oob fight seriously. All he landed was a kiai that did some damage to Goku's clothes.

Yeah, was. With Super, we know Goku will have to be way above Super Saiyan 3 now.

 

[kriss-]

Goku was definitely losing the battle once Oob turned up the heat. Goku is essentially as powerful as his Super Saiyan 3 self from the Boo Saga, but in his Base form. This is what Dragonball Super will portray, and my theory will eventually be proven.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Where was he losing? They were exchanging attacks until Oob did a kiai. He never landed a hit on Goku.

Only if you pretend Base Goku is weaker than Super Saiyan 3 after training with Whis. The whole point of the training was to bring him to unbelievable heights in Base. That's exactly what happened. Beers even said both Goku and Vegeta made huge leaps in power. Keep in mind that Beers didn't think much of Super Saiyan 3 and you end up with Base Goku and Vegeta being above Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

All the Oob "battle" tells is that he has really strong without any formal training. We don't see Goku power-up or fight seriously enough to gauge his limits. He just wanted to test Oob and get a feel for his power. Another issue when using the End of Z is that Vegeta still considers Goku outta his league, which isn't reflected on in Super anymore. They're regarded as being on-par, more or less. During the End of Z, Vegeta couldn't believe there was anyone on the Earth that could be a match for Goku.

It's just too soon to try to bridge Super to the End of Z.

 

[kriss-]

Whiss doesn't seem to think much of Goku's Base level strength, and infers that it's only a couple of feet off the ground in comparison to God level fighters. Whiss is the more reliable character so I'm going to stick with him, Beerus has been shown to lie on many different occasions.

There is a-lot of time for Toriyama to make Goku stronger than Vegeta by the time EOZ occurs. Toriyama obviously hasn't forgotten about Oob or those particular statements, so this isn't an issue.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Whis doesn't think much before the training. We're given no indication he's still unimpressed once the training is finished.

Pan is already born even though she's only 4 by the end. It's way too early to assume End of Z can't play out differently.