Since the bandwagon for this has appeared...

Captain Cadaver

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The first movie is fine as popcorn entertainment, even if dealing with something as messy as time travel. The second and third ones, however, are a bit harder to defend when the time travel problems become far more difficult to ignore.
 

Keedounan

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Would you agree with the claim that Naruto/Sasuke would have made way more sense than Naruto/Hinata or Sasuke/Sakura? :troll
 

Captain Cadaver

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Hard to say for Naruto/Hinata since there's at least something going on there with the whole opposites attract aspect (and maybe Naruto realising she's a far more healthy relationship choice than Sakura), but definitely makes more sense than Sakura going full Stockholm Syndrome on the guy who almost killed her :alex2.
 

Keedounan

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Hard to say for Naruto/Hinata since there's at least something going on there with the whole opposites attract aspect (and maybe Naruto realising she's a far more healthy relationship choice than Sakura), but definitely makes more sense than Sakura going full Stockholm Syndrome on the guy who almost killed her :alex2.
Or Sasuke suddenly falling in love with the girl that he spent the whole time ignoring or treating like shit. Kishimoto tried so hard to tell us that there's something more than a one-sided crush on the handsome genius guy, but you simply don't buy into it. :ladd
 

Fantastische Hure

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wot do u think of this music from yu-gi-oh! gx, if u can & want to even listen? (there's a-lot of music obvsly)





 

Papasmurf

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Do you think it would've ever been possible for Naruto to be elevated from a 1 or 2/10 to a 3 if The Last movie were in the manga itself instead of fast-forwarding 15 years, and wasn't just a testament to why Kishimoto shouldn't do a romance story?
 

Captain Cadaver

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Or Sasuke suddenly falling in love with the girl that he spent the whole time ignoring or treating like shit. Kishimoto tried so hard to tell us that there's something more than a one-sided crush on the handsome genius guy, but you simply don't buy into it. :ladd
In fairness, Sasuke basically up and leaves his wife and child whenever he feels like it without any sort of quest for deeper meaning, so Kishimoto's at least consistent in presenting it as a one-sided thing :troll.

@Fantastische Hure The first three are serviceable, though a bit run of the mill in what they achieve. The 4th one is quite a unique one by having a very strong and energetic start before becoming more ominous and solemn, with the 5th having similar qualities.

Do you think Britain leaving the EU was a good thing?
There were a lot of pros and cons to it, though most of the pros are only so in premise. It sounds good in that Britain wouldn't have to damage its economy by converting to the Euro and wouldn't have to conform to the globalism of the EU, but both have been shown to be a pipedream with global events bringing the economy on a downward spiral and Britain making no attempts to promote any sort of nationalism or individualism alien from the EU's goals. As for the aspects that are flawed in premise and execution would be that trade is becoming a major issue (particularly with the British government doing the exact opposite of supporting local farming and production) as well as people with genuine reasons for visiting or emigrating to the country being put through very unnecessary hurdles.
Leaving the EU would have been a good thing under a government that genuinely opposed the EU's policies and wanted to retain independence rather than producing a glorified puppet show.

Do you think it would've ever been possible for Naruto to be elevated from a 1 or 2/10 to a 3 if The Last movie were in the manga itself instead of fast-forwarding 15 years, and wasn't just a testament to why Kishimoto shouldn't do a romance story?
No. The damage had already been done well before the contrived Naruto VS Sasuke battle and The Last did nothing to salvage it. Without a heavy rewrite to somehow pave over everything that had ruined the series, extending the series in any way was and is still a bad idea.
 

Classic Adamas

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How do you decide what you'd like to read or watch? When do you decide to drop something?
 

Keedounan

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What do you think of this post and revenge stories in general? Which ideas and twists do you think would make the average revenge plot more interesting and less straightforward?
 

Captain Cadaver

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How do you decide what you'd like to read or watch? When do you decide to drop something?
Without resorting to the situational "it depends," I'd probably say I watch something based on what I've heard of it combined with how trustworthy the opinions I've heard from others is. As for when I drop it, that usually comes down to its lack of quality becoming too obvious or it taking the kind of downhill turn that wastes what potential there still was for investment.

Darth Tobey is the apprentice of the Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Jar Jar. No Jedi stands a chance against him :troll.

What do you think of this post and revenge stories in general? Which ideas and twists do you think would make the average revenge plot more interesting and less straightforward?
The post itself isn't the most helpful when some of the points are overly simplistic even for a beginner writer and the idea that this needs to be a sole motivation for a protagonist's actions is setting them up to be a bit reactionary. The advice that a character mustn't go overboard is also limiting depending on the intent of the story, as many of the best revenge plots often showcase the dangerous aspect of going down a path of revenge.

As for adding more meat to the typical revenge plot, there's many examples that can make doing so more interesting. There are two examples within anime/manga to serve as a gold standard for revenge stories, being that of Guts and Griffith in Berserk and that of Thorfinn and Askeladd in Vinland Saga. With Guts, we see enough of his character development in the Golden Age to know how shocking Griffith's betrayal was and have a desire to see him get vengeance, but we're also shown prior in the Black Swordsman Arc and later in the Conviction Arc how Guts' desire for revenge has made him at least as sadistic and murderous as those he fights against. On top of that, events in the story have him make choices and compromises as to whether pursuing vengeance without a second thought compared to protecting what matters to him and allowing new bonds to open up with others is the right path, with his arc prior to Miura's death having been in a position where he could've easily given up his quest for revenge by instead pursuing happiness depite his hatred for Griffith not subsiding. With Thorfinn, his revenge plot is made interesting due to the position he is in causing Askeladd to act as a mentor figure for him at the same time as an object for revenge to make his feelings far more complex.

For more broad ideas of improving a revenge plot, here's a few:

* The aftermath - Even if the revenge plot is cut and dry, this can lead to new scenarios of how the character feels after taking revenge as well as what are the repercussions for killing the antagonist or those along the way.
* Beaten to the punch - If the antagonist is killed or otherwise incapacitated from their duties by another before the protagonist (or whatever role the avenger is) can get their revenge, this can test the potential of the character by exploring how they will deal with their desire going unfulfilled and what kind of relationship this may create with the one who beat the antagonist.
* The avenger loses - If the one seeking revenge ultimately fails, being captured, killed or otherwise losing to the antagonist, this opens up many routes a story can take in terms of how other characters will react to this, what affect this will have on the antagonist (eg. becoming overly arrogant and ignorant of their own vulnerability).
 

Fantastische Hure

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wot do u think of this music from yu-yu-hakusho? (if u can & want to listen/answer)


&


&


& also mayumi tanaka singing this song from yu-yu-hakusho? (if u can & want to listen/answer):

 
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Papasmurf

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Why do you think Bardock gets so wanked in spinoffs like Ooishi's completely awful Episode of Bardock manga, and even got SSJ2, 3 and even SSJ4 in Heroes/Xenoverse, whereas King Vegeta doesn't get shit? You'd think with even Raditz and Nappa getting SSJ3 forms in official fanfiction supplementary material, they'd have thought to give King Vegeta a form or two.
 

Captain Cadaver

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@Fantastische Hure The Romance ost blends traditional Japanese and western inspirations well and is quite fitting in the scenes it's used in (particularly with the implications of it playing when Sensui's watching a bit of Chapter Black before fighting Yusuke). The sad instrumental of Hohoemi no Bakudan is good as well, with it being one I like as it's always good to see how the opening of an anime can be manipulated to fit various tones. On that note, the next episode preview theme is one of the most memorable in anime with how it takes inspiration from some cheesy introduction jingles that wouldn't make it out of place on something like a talk show, which is fitting with the light tone that's often within YYH despite the dark subject matter it can deal with.
As for Tanaka's cover of Daydream Generation, it's a very surprising one when considering how she often does songs for anime in-character and doesn't often get a chance to show off her good singing skills, with her presenting a firm yet varied tone as expected of a veteran seiyuu.
Why do you think Bardock gets so wanked in spinoffs like Ooishi's completely awful Episode of Bardock manga, and even got SSJ2, 3 and even SSJ4 in Heroes/Xenoverse, whereas King Vegeta doesn't get shit? You'd think with even Raditz and Nappa getting SSJ3 forms in official fanfiction supplementary material, they'd have thought to give King Vegeta a form or two.
The main three aspects are likely popularity, appeal and his role. The Bardock Special made him an undeniably more popular character than King Vegeta, particularly when Bardock got a cameo in the manga whereas King Vegeta was only namedropped. The whole idea of him being a one man army standing against fate also helped make him someone that fans could easily latch onto as a cool character, whereas King Vegeta didn't really have anything to make him stand out amongst the Saiyans beyond a title and a beard. Third, being Galu's father inevitably caused those who didn't understand how Bardock's character was utilised in the original special to try and make him some extremely special Saiyan rather than a product of circumstance in much the same manner as many Shonen manga after Dragon Ball's conclusion made it a trope to make the protagonist's father incredibly special.
As for why King Vegeta gets less shine than even Raditz and Nappa though, there's less explanation other than DBH/XV being a glorified popularity contest, especially when Heroes gave such interesting pieces of lore to him as finding the Makai prior to the past and using it as an occasional training location.
 

Papasmurf

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At this point what do you think is more likely to happen first, SSJ King Vegeta or SSJ/SSJG Yamoshi being featured in some spin-off?
 

Keedounan

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The post itself isn't the most helpful when some of the points are overly simplistic even for a beginner writer and the idea that this needs to be a sole motivation for a protagonist's actions is setting them up to be a bit reactionary. The advice that a character mustn't go overboard is also limiting depending on the intent of the story, as many of the best revenge plots often showcase the dangerous aspect of going down a path of revenge.
This is especially true when you consider that revenge is more often than not such an emotionally driven motive that it's perhaps one of the scenarios in which the protagonist going overboard actually make sense, depending on how close they were to the person who has been harmed and/or how comfortable with violence they were previously established to be.
 

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