Since the bandwagon for this has appeared...

Captain Cadaver

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Fantastische Hure said:
DragonBall
One-Piece
Fist of the North-Star
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
City-Hunter
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure > Fist of the North Star (Part 1) >> One Piece > Dragon Ball (Part 1) > City Hunter >> DBZ >> Fist of the North Star (Part 2)

If we're talking about scores, then:

Dragon Ball - 5/10 (6/10 for DB, 4/10 for DBZ)
One Piece - 6/10
Fist of the North Star - 7.5/10 (Part 1)
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - 8/10
City Hunter - 5.5/10
 

Keedounan

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What did you thought about Kuririn not killing #18 when he had the chance ?
 

Captain Cadaver

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Didn't think it damaged his character at all. Considering his timid nature in most scenarios it would be surprising for him to follow through, plus we have to remember the guy's entire goal at first was to get pussy and later, as he matured, to get married. Considering he had a hot blonde come along, kiss him and fuel the fire of his goal coming to fruition, it seemed like the only logical route for Kuririn's character.
 

Keedounan

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Captain Cadaver said:
Didn't think it damaged his character at all. Considering his timid nature in most scenarios it would be surprising for him to follow through, plus we have to remember the guy's entire goal at first was to get pussy and later, as he matured, to get married. Considering he had a hot blonde come along, kiss him and fuel the fire of his goal coming to fruition, it seemed like the only logical route for Kuririn's character.

I also think that what favored this event is the fact that Krillin is the one who found out the cyborgs weren't as bad as they were described. After all, the Z-Fighters attacked them first, they they stomped them for it...and they just let them go, even asking Krillin to give them senzu beans after the beating.

He's also the one who convinced Trunks that #16 was a good guy.
 

Captain Cadaver

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Yeah. Had Trunks come to anywhere near the level of realisation that Kuririn did regarding this, he would've easily been the best developed character in the arc. Too bad that wasn't the case.
 

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I remeber you said that the female characters from Uchū Senkan Yamato 2199 were among the most attractive ones you've seen in Anime (and I agree). What would be a ranking in a particular order ?
 

Captain Cadaver

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#1/2 - Yuki & Yurisha
#3 - Kaoru
#4 - Melda
#5 - Akira

After that, the ranking's pretty interchangeable for the rest.
 

Keedounan

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I see.

Who is the most underrated character in Anime/Manga according to you ?
 

Captain Cadaver

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That's a very difficult question and I don't have a definitive answer. As far as ones worth highlighting, there's Kanzaki Jun from the 2-part OVA Area 88. Without spoiling much about his plot or character, his development through his experience makes him what Gon from Hunter X Hunter should've developed into from the events in the Chimera Ant Arc had the Election Arc not reset his character. As for why I consider him underrated, it's because very few people have watched these OVAs, despite it easily being the best war drama in anime in terms of realism in it's action and character morality.

Speaking of Hunter X Hunter, Knov and Shoot are quite underrated, at least in comparison to their peers in the arc, despite both going through a swift yet well executed development arc (Knov's breakdown and return to save his allies and Shoot's resolve to fight Youpi).
 

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Fantastische Hure said:
Since JoJo is Oh so amazing, how do you rank the parts?
Phantom Blood - 5.5/10
Battle Tendency - 7/10
Stardust Crusaders - 6/10
Diamond is Unbreakable - 7.5/10
Vento Aureo - 4.5/10
Stone Ocean - 6.5/10
Steel Ball Run - 8/10
JoJolion - 5/10 (thus far)

My overall ranking of the series is based on it's best part, Steel Ball Run, due to it essentially being a soft reboot and therefore capable of standing as it's own story without the other parts. If I were to rank it based on it's average quality though, it'd be just above a 6/10 due to the quality fluctuating drastically between parts, plus before the new SBR continuity, a lot of JoJo suffered from pretty bad plot holes due to Araki's memory being almost as bad as :troll's.
 

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Welcome to the NHK is easily one of my favourite anime/manga series due to it's realism and subject matter, especially for the era it was released. The hikkokomori and social anxiety is one many series tend to ignore or if they don't, push it to the extreme to the point it can't be taken seriously (eg. Watamote). This makes both the protagonist of NHK and the subject matter, especially if you consider yourself more introverted, very engaging. Unlike other series with similar subject matter, the main character actually develops and improves his condition and though occasionally regressing to his own ways, it's all done through realistic and in-depth means. Along with hikkokomori, another focus is the ridiculous extremities of otaku pandering that have gone from making anime/manga fans seem to have gone from a neat but niche hobby into some kind of weirdos, what with things like virtual waifus and the like. This helps it act as a criticism against the way modern anime is treated; being more a cash cow than trying to tell an actual story of worth.
Moreover, the scenarios in which the protagonist and his friends try to overcome their problems never gets repetitive as there's always a new scenario to explore, whether it be through creating a video game, suicide pacts, online gaming/transactions or trying to get a girlfriend, each episode has something new to explore about the condition and psychology of modern hikkokomori, NEETs or otaku.
It's also one of the few series to have a satisfying ending. Whilst not being entirely wrapped up, it offers the characters the catharsis they need as for there being no need to extend the plot.
For being an honest depiction of the hikkokomori and otaku lifestyle, having well developed and believable characters and overall being an entertaining psychological series with comedic elements, I'd easily herald Welcome to the NHK as being one of the greatest anime/manga of all time.

8/10
 

Fantastische Hure

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Great post. I was watching some of the first episode sometime ago, after hearing about the premise of the show and I really liked that. In a sad kind-of way almost resembled my life. 22 years old. No university (as of right-now anyway) and the social shit, besides having a job. But it seemed to do all that with a comedic flair to it so I could actually laugh as well.

Are Game of Thrones/Walking Dead fans people who talk down on Anime/Manga, but jumped on a live-action series with a premise that could be seen in an anime as soon as they saw it because they won't have to "lower" themselves to watch anime? :troll :troll :troll

Is Anime/Manga past the golden-age? Is the quality declining?
 

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Fantastische Hure said:
Are Game of Thrones/Walking Dead fans people who talk down on Anime/Manga, but jumped on a live-action series with a premise that could be seen in an anime as soon as they saw it because they won't have to "lower" themselves to watch anime? :troll :troll :troll
I guess some of them must be, though it's pretty idiotic when the writing quality of both shows once they started to diverge completely from the source material fell to the level of most modern anime :trash. Plus, Legend of the Galactic Heroes and Berserk are a better version of Game of Thrones anyway.

Is Anime/Manga past the golden-age? Is the quality declining?
Definitely for both. The Golden Age of anime was easily around the 80s and 90s with the quality of good series not being too far from the quantity produced. Only series I'd consider bad from that era are a few low level episodic, school, harem and gore schlock series, and in nowhere near the amount they're mass produced today. You could perceive the mid 2000s as being close to a Golden Age due to the emergence of many innovative series that improved on older ideas (eg. FMA and Welcome to the NHK), but that was only fleeting. Nowadays, the standard for anime has definitely lowered despite the increased hype people have for them, with most simply riding on a premise and not caring about the execution.
It can also be considered that mangaka and anime directors nowadays have far more focus on gaining inspiration from other manga/anime rather than their own life experiences, making series feel like a carbon copy. I have no problem with being inspired by a series you like. Hell, I've fell prey to this mindset many a time in my creative ideas and do like a few franchises that were mainly inspired by older works such as the Star Wars franchise and Hunter X Hunter. The problem is that modern creators tend to put too many eggs in one basket. For example, Bleach was just a Yu Yu Hakusho ripoff until it became a Saint Seiya ripoff and never had an identity of it's own, One Punch Man rides on a joke that Hokuto no Ken and Dragon Ball did decades before until their creators figured an unbeatable protagonist got stale, Boku no Hero Academia is just a Kinnikuman/Naruto hybrid ripoff that has poor ideas that even Naruto executed far better, etc. Because of this, most of the anime of the 2010s I've been drawn to have simply been adaptations/reboots of older series such as JoJo, Yamato, HxH and UC Gundam, with there being minimal series of worth beyond being decent flicks at best. To summarise, retro series, people can talk about and compare how good they were. Modern series can only be compared as how bad they are compared to past series or each other.
The amount of mass production in terms of merchandise is also a problem. Companies care more about the financial success of a series than it's critical success. Sure, many creators of old were the same, such as Toei, but even they seldom let money dictate their handling of a series as much as in the modern day, as well as perpetuating the problematic psychology of the hikkokomori, NEETs and otaku their products are primarily aimed at. I don't recall the anime industry of the 80s/90s being filled with mass production of body pillows or death threats to creators for something as petty as two characters not becoming a couple.
Basically, the anime/manga industry of today is brought down by a lack of creativity and pandering/exploitation of it's audience. This is the real reason Miyazaki said his iconic quote "Anime was a mistake".
 

Fantastische Hure

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Great, great post. Very good analysis, if I do say so myself. And I do know that quote. :king :king :king

I basically agree with everything that was said. You are right in that almost everything feels like a straight rip-off nowadays under the guise of calling it a "homage" to the older series. You don't get revolutionary/genre-defining series like Gundam or DragonBall or Cowboy Bebop now. Even if DragonBall started off as an alternate retelling of Journey to the West in a way, the series after that wasn't like that anymore. About the merchandising too. DragonBall Super for example has so many unnecessary transformations that are clearly there just to sell figures or whatever.

While we are on the subject of 2010s anime, what do you think about Tokyo Ghoul? I've heard some extremely differing opinions about it, but can't get a decent image on what it is and also doesn't seem that interesting.
 

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What would be a top ten of the best characters in Monster in your opinion ?
 

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Fantastische Hure said:
While we are on the subject of 2010s anime, what do you think about Tokyo Ghoul? I've heard some extremely differing opinions about it, but can't get a decent image on what it is and also doesn't seem that interesting.
One of the worst manga I've read in my life. From the first chapter alone, everything is just face palmingly stupid. We learn the world has featured human eating monsters, yet see no changes in society to combat it. Whilst I consider Attack on Titan a trainwreck, it at least had the sense to have it's civilisations evolve in a manner to combat their threats. What's more, the protagonist ignores obvious signs that lead up to getting him in danger and when he is almost killed, he's saved by a randomly falling metallic beam crushing the Ghoul chasing him. Let's stop to consider that all this idiocy happens within the very first chapter.

The series is just a ripoff of Parasyte but with nowhere near the theme exploration or explanations for the plot, instead replacing such crucial aspects with mindless edgelord material to make dumb teenagers treat it as a masterpiece. Going further into the series, it has very flat and predictable characters. You can tell the motives of most of the characters such as the Doctor wanting to make a Ghoul army or that guy from the 3rd volume being evil just from the way they act in their introduction and simple deductions of common sense, making any supposed "plot twists" very vapid. Whatever interest it had as a psychological horror (and I use that very lightly for this shit) is replaced with it having the same problems as most battle Shonen, to the point it's like reading a worse version of Part 2 Naruto. Random asspull power ups that go beyond in-universe logic (especially a Ghoul eating it's own flesh to become stronger. Why weren't ghouls abusing this Zenkai before?), magical unexplained resurrections (the ghoul bitch from the first chapter is alive somehow) and characters being little more than people forged by reaction than by actual development (eg. the protagonist parroting the actions of his torturer being meant as a substitute for proper development). Hell, even it's dumb fanbase have started to hate the series after the sequel, much like Bleach's fanbase did after the last arc (though I'd say even Bleach is a better written and more interesting series, and that's saying a lot).

1/10. Would be a 0/10 if I were being less professional about the review.

Keedounan said:
What would be a top ten of the best characters in Monster in your opinion ?
#1 - Grimmer
#2 - Tenma
#3 - Johan
#4 - Lunge
#5 - Eva

Pretty hard to organise the rest after that, but that's the solid top 5 at least.
 

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Keedounan said:
On the other hand, who are the worst characters in the DBVerse ?
Hard to say without listing a bunch of worthless characters who appeared for an episode of so such as Gohan's annoying homeschool teacher or most of the Evil Dragons, as well as mass produced clones like the Saibaimen and Cell Juniors. Can't really rank them in a top ten, other than Broly and Kale being the biggest offenders, but a few noteworthy names would be...

Tenshinhan, Chaozu, Shin, Evil/Pure Boo, Super #17, Yi Xing Long, Slug, Broly, Frost, Cabba, Black, Zamasu and pretty much any new character from the ToP.
 

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