SSJ2 Kid Gohan vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta

[Zippy]

Vegeta with mid-high difficulty

 

[Papasmurf]

Sure Goku has made some gains, but its still early in the training, Goku's focus is on surpassing the Super Saiyan. If his Super Saiyan power is way over the Androids already what's the point?

And yes SSG3 is 2-3x over SSG2, not Cell.

Vegeta was somewhat ahead of Goku pre-RoSaT and still took 2 months to achieve Grade 2, so logic dictates it would've taken a similar amount of time for Goku to do the same even if he's more skilled in training.

Being better than the Androids makes no difference in any case since Goku already felt initial Semi-Cell and knew there was a possibility Cell would be perfect by the time they finished training. Everyone #16 and below were non-factors.

 

[p123]

The point being, Goku receiving massive gains in those two months is completely illogical. Goku's gains over the last 3 years weren't all that spectacular so why would another two months matter?

Goku seemed to be focusing on trying to think about the best method to training more than training himself. He was waiting on Gohan to attain Super Saiyan and still hadn't figured out his path.

For Goku to have any sort of tremendous gain in power in these circumstances seems to go directly against the entire context of being in the ROSAT in the first place.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well they're 2 months in the RoSaT. Trunks and Vegeta also gained bigger gains in 1 year than the longer 3-year period training for the cybrogs as well, so they're not run of the mill 2 months.

 

[p123]

I would think the discovery of the grade forms is what allowed their Super Saiyan power to progress so much. Unless you think one year of ROSAT training would allow their Super Saiyan to catch up to Semi Cell on it's own?

 

[Papasmurf]

Honestly not sure that would affect training progress. Goku discovered SSJ3 but he didn't progress disproportionately fast compared to Vegeta prior to the Boo arc.

 

[p123]

That makes sense to me. Super Saiyan 3 is a boost to the already established range of power. Goku's Base/SS power by this point has been established.

So, for example, this is all theory of course, but this is how I think of it.

Regular Base/SS

Starting from a point where they surpass the Saiyan limits, probably around 50,000 or so. Super Saiyan becomes an option.

Then, the power in Base/SS from Namek to the Androids is generally the top end of this range of power. They can make some moderate gains off of their Base/SS power from Namek, but they are generally at the same plane of power. This is why they need to "surpass" this level. Mere training will not allow them to break through the wall.


Grade Forms

Now the Grade Forms allow the Saiyans to unlock a whole new level of accessible power. Grade Forms are merely an inferior method to mastering the Super Saiyan. The Grade forms do allow for massive gains in power that the Regular SS could not allow for. It is another road or door that has been opened. Which leads to very vast power gains, but still, is nothing in comparison to the true, proper path. This form has it's limits as well, Vegeta most likely is already somewhere around those limits as in he is starting to experience diminishing returns. I think he can still get stronger over the years, but he's more or less back stuck on this level of power. A power completely superior to Regular Super Saiyan, but cannot be anywhere close to Mastered Super Saiyan.

Mastered Super Saiyan

This brings out a Saiyan's full potential is Base and SS. There is no comparison to the Grade Forms chain of power. I think you get the point here. So Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 are transformations on top of an already established range of power.



Under this theory, which I feel is implied by the story, Goku as a Super Saiyan in the ROSAT should not be vastly different than what he was against the Androids.

 

[Papasmurf]

MSSJ is the only "grade" form that's suggested to rapidly speed up training gains imo. Trunks doesn't suggest him gaining Grade 3 sped up his gains even when he believed Vegeta had only attained Grade 2, despite the perceived difference in their progress. They're also deemed useless very fast, unlike MSSJ.

 

[ahill1]

That makes sense to me. Super Saiyan 3 is a boost to the already established range of power. Goku's Base/SS power by this point has been established.

So, for example, this is all theory of course, but this is how I think of it.

Regular Base/SS

Starting from a point where they surpass the Saiyan limits, probably around 50,000 or so. Super Saiyan becomes an option.

Then, the power in Base/SS from Namek to the Androids is generally the top end of this range of power. They can make some moderate gains off of their Base/SS power from Namek, but they are generally at the same plane of power. This is why they need to "surpass" this level. Mere training will not allow them to break through the wall.


Grade Forms

Now the Grade Forms allow the Saiyans to unlock a whole new level of accessible power. Grade Forms are merely an inferior method to mastering the Super Saiyan. The Grade forms do allow for massive gains in power that the Regular SS could not allow for. It is another road or door that has been opened. Which leads to very vast power gains, but still, is nothing in comparison to the true, proper path. This form has it's limits as well, Vegeta most likely is already somewhere around those limits as in he is starting to experience diminishing returns. I think he can still get stronger over the years, but he's more or less back stuck on this level of power. A power completely superior to Regular Super Saiyan, but cannot be anywhere close to Mastered Super Saiyan.

Mastered Super Saiyan

This brings out a Saiyan's full potential is Base and SS. There is no comparison to the Grade Forms chain of power. I think you get the point here. So Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 are transformations on top of an already established range of power.



Under this theory, which I feel is implied by the story, Goku as a Super Saiyan in the ROSAT should not be vastly different than what he was against the Androids.

But Vegeta made some huge gains even as SSJ; he went from considerably below Android #18 to rivals Semi Perfect Cell ( Initial ).

 

[p123]

I would think that Super Saiyan Vegeta being anywhere near Semi Cell is all the proof needed to show that the Grade forms allowed the Saiyans to access a level of power they would have never achieved.