Super Saiyan 2/3 Multipliers

[Pyro]

Can someone post the panel in which Vegeta SSJG2 launched a few chi attacks on Perfect Cell, who was still warming up? I am pretty sure Cell didn't even bother defending himself from those blasts, he just completely walked through them.

You're right, I just reread the fight. Cell casually walked through the blasts and was smiling when he came through the smoke in front of Vegeta. Then he popped Vegeta in the nose, which took him a few moments to recover from and he looked in rough shape just from that.

http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?fpp=10&did=0-0-25&smf=1&fid=150

 

[Victorious]

Super Saiyan 2 should not be weaker than Super Saiyan Grade 3 IMO.

SSJG3 Future Trunks >> Perfect Cell [warming up] >>> SSJG2 Vegeta >> Semi Cell [Full power] >= SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Future Trunks

The gap between Warm Up Cell and Super Vegeta itself is like 2x.

 

[ahill1]

Super Saiyan 2 should not be weaker than Super Saiyan Grade 3 IMO.

SSJG3 Future Trunks >> Perfect Cell [warming up] >>> SSJG2 Vegeta >> Semi Cell [Full power] >= SSJ Vegeta > SSJ Future Trunks

The gap between Warm Up Cell and Super Vegeta itself is like 2x.

Yeah, that's one of the problems when having the SSJ multiplier as "low" as 2x... you'd got to have the Grade 3's multiplier as way above the SSJ2's one or lowball [warming up] Perfect Cell's gap over SSJg2 Vegeta to something like 1.33x or so.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't have an issue with Grade 3 being >> SSJ2, considering how wasteful the form was with it's strain and speed issues.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'd say in the CG SSJ2 looks like the more powerful form, in Boo arc perhaps not.

 

[p123]

Grade 3 is implied to be a bigger boost than Super Saiyan 2 though.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When?

 

[p123]

Super Saiyan as a 25x boost seems to work better as well.

 

[Papasmurf]

Where is the comparison between Grade 3's boost and SSJ2's boost ever drawn outside of DBS? The only thing we know about the former form is that it had power surpassing a suppressed Cell but was overall useless, and 2's boost was enough to take a zenkai'd Perfect Cell.

 

[p123]

Here's our comparison.

Goku had only been in the ROSAT but so long yet his Grade 2 was capable of surpassing the massive gap Semi Cell's initial power had on him.

Grade 3 Goku > Semi Cell > Grade 2 Goku > SS Goku (ROSAT) > SS Goku (Androids Saga)

Also, check out Trunks Grade 3.

Grade 3 Trunks > Perfect Cell >> Grade 2 Vegeta >= Grade 2 Trunks

This is but another massive gap suggested to have been surpassed as well.

Super Saiyan 2 on the other hand, not so much. Cell should already be fighting at at least half of his full power when he fights Super Saiyan Gohan and then he's only so much above that plus a rage boost!

The Grade forms transformations shouldn't be thought of as a comparison to the natural, true transformations. They can't compare in efficiency. Their actual numbers are irrelevant.

 

[Papasmurf]

The comparison was drawn between Grade 3 Goku and Semi-Cell, not grade 2. The exposition for G2 only openly states he "already surpassed the Super Saiyan," the comparison to Cell was only after he went grade 3 on top of that. Since Gohan isn't a very smart fighter I also doubt he accounted for Cell's hidden power either.

At best Grade 2 was on competing range with #16 or something imo.

 

[p123]

I can't understand what you are saying.

What I'm saying is, the span of power Grade 2 encompasses is suggested to be higher than the span of power Super Saiyan 2 encompasses. Goku goes from being around the Androids level of power as a Super Saiyan, to being stronger than freaking Semi Cell. If Goku was capable of turning Super Saiyan 2 in that instance, there's no way he spans that gap.

 

[Papasmurf]

I said that grade 3 was the form that was compared to Cell, not grade 2. You got the order backwards, here's an english scan so even you can understand:

No such statement made for grade 2. Grade 2 as far as we know is a vastly inferior boost to SSJ2.

 

[p123]

Ok. So you agree Grade 3 is a bigger boost off of Super Saiyan than Super Saiyan 2?

 

[Papasmurf]

Depends how you slice it really, Goku presumably spent 2 months or so unlocking Grade 2/3 so he may be above Kamiccolo in normal SSJ and he might not. Cell's power up to FP in Perfect form might have been huge and it might not have been. There's a lot of ifs in this scenario although there seem to be more gaps between SSJ Trunks < FP Semi < Grade 2 Trunks < initial Grade 3 Trunks =< suppressed Cell =< Grade 3 Trunks, than SSJ Gohan =< powered up Cell < FP Cell < Injured Buff Cell < SSJ2 Gohan.

 

[p123]

So is the answer yes or no?

 

[Victorious]

I think SSJ2 should at the very least match SSJG3 on power output off of SSJ.

 

[p123]

That's just personal preference, it's not really suggested at all.

 

[Victorious]

How is SSJ2 only a 2x boost suggested? It just comes from a stupid guidebook released years after DBZ
ended.

 

[p123]

You know I don't go by the guidebooks at all.

If you take Gohan's rage boost into account, 2-2.5x boost for Super Saiyan 2 makes the most sense. If you factor in during the Buu Saga, Super Saiyan 2 isn't displayed as the monstrosity it was in the Cell Game, it furthers the point and finally, to get a real handle on the Gotenks situation, the smaller the boosts the better to keep things from getting out of hand.

Perfect Cell is likely using the lion's share of his power against Goku and Gohan already. Sure, he has quite the reserves left in the tank, but he should be using somewhere around 50-60% of his power realistically. He shouldn't be getting all that massive of a power up. With that in mind, the numbers work out with Gohan getting a 2x boost for Super Saiyan 2 and a bit more to serve as the cherry on top for his rage boost.