Tenshinhan (22nd Tenkaichi-Budokai) vs Tao-Pai-Pai

[Diamond Ryan]

He probably got stronger as he got older, so Young Tenshinhan < Tao < 22nd Tenshinhan.

 

[SSJ2]

but that was shown & directly stated by him

But Tao > Ten is contradicted by power scaling. You'd have to argue that Tao was holding back a shit ton in the RRA arc to make sense of it.

maybe tenshinhan's techniques were only > tao

His raw power is above Chappa, who is above Tao Pai Pai. There's only two ways you can make Tao > Tenshinhan work:

1. Tao was holding back the majority of his power vs Goku.

Counter - Tao stated he was going to get serious twice, and was shocked that he couldn't do more damage to Goku - also needed a weapon showing inferiority.

2. Goku didn't improve between RRA and the 22nd.

Counter - Was stated that he did.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

i digress to every1

but i don't know something abt this. i'm still not sure.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Tao was holding back a ton of power and only pretended to lose to Goku. Then, using his magic powers, he pretended to be an android.
Tao pulls the strings, Tao is behind everything in Dragonball. Tao created the universe. Tao has counted to infinity. Beerus is the result
of Whisses pregnancy after being raped by Tao. Tao even created Akira Toriyanma.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Dafuq you just said?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Tao was holding back a ton of power and only pretended to lose to Goku. Then, using his magic powers, he pretended to be an android.
Tao pulls the strings, Tao is behind everything in Dragonball. Tao created the universe. Tao has counted to infinity. Beerus is the result
of Whisses pregnancy after being raped by Tao. Tao even created Akira Toriyanma.

i wanted a srs answer

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I guess

Goku ~ Tien 22nd > Normal Tao is pretty much.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I guess

Goku ~ Tien 22nd > Normal Tao is pretty much.

Goku is noticeably higher than Tenshinhan, though.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I remember where @Lightworn said that Tien Vs Goku is similar to Goku Vs Cell. which mean that either Goku is on Cell's position in terms of power.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I remember where @Lightword said that Tien Vs Goku is similar to Goku Vs Cell. which mean that either Goku is on Cell's position in terms of power.

it's not that much, i don't think i remember

but goku had a clear advantage

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Like Frieza Vs Goku?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Like Frieza Vs Goku?

I think so, maybe. Yeah, I think I think.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

This thread made me think. Are the 22nd TB gaps as big as we think? Let's examine more carefully Tenshinhan's
stance towards Taopaipai (don't start cursing, i'm just throwing out some thoughts)...
-Tenshinhan seemed to think little of all Roshi's students, even after fighting Yamcha, whereas he held Tao's power
in higher regard. Of course that doesn't mean he didn't think he could beat Tao himself. Tenshinhan obviously was
aiming for becoming the world's no1 assassin/fighter/whatever. He respected his mentor, but he had surpassed him
by this point. He just didn't believe there was anyone else who could beat him, an opinion that didn't change after
fighting Yamcha. All in all...
22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Suppressed Goku<Tao<Tien
In other words, Krillin/Yamcha were still below 3 year prior Goku and were just delusional and not experienced
enough to gauge powers. This also means Goku had small gains over the 3 years, which makes more sense,
considering he didn't do any special training.
Of course, that contradicts Roshi's statements about King Chappa. But i think Tien knew Tao's power better
than Roshi knew Chappa's power; Tien had lived with Tao.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

This thread made me think. Are the 22nd TB gaps as big as we think? Let's examine more carefully Tenshinhan's
stance towards Taopaipai (don't start cursing, i'm just throwing out some thoughts)...
-Tenshinhan seemed to think little of all Roshi's students, even after fighting Yamcha, whereas he held Tao's power
in higher regard. Of course that doesn't mean he didn't think he could beat Tao himself. Tenshinhan obviously was
aiming for becoming the world's no1 assassin/fighter/whatever. He respected his mentor, but he had surpassed him
by this point. He just didn't believe there was anyone else who could beat him, an opinion that didn't change after
fighting Yamcha. All in all...
22nd Krillin/Yamcha/Suppressed Goku<Tao<Tien
In other words, Krillin/Yamcha were still below 3 year prior Goku and were just delusional and not experienced
enough to gauge powers. This also means Goku had small gains over the 3 years, which makes more sense,
considering he didn't do any special training.
Of course, that contradicts Roshi's statements about King Chappa. But i think Tien knew Tao's power better
than Roshi knew Chappa's power; Tien had lived with Tao.

Master-Roshi also thought that any of the 3 could win the tournament.

I think it's easier to go with younger Tao being higher than when we saw him.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Roshi said that Kuririn and Yamcha had a chance at winning despite having seen Post Karin Goku's power, and Roshi should be capable of gauging someone's power well.

 

[Papasmurf]

I also think it'd be incredibly stupid for Yamcha and Kuririn to show up as confident as they were if they were truly weaker than even post-water Goku from 3 years ago. It'd just be like showing up weaker than 22nd Goku and Tenshinhan for the 23rd.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I also think it'd be incredibly stupid for Yamcha and Kuririn to show up as confident as they were if they were truly weaker than even post-water Goku from 3 years ago. It'd just be like showing up weaker than 22nd Goku and Tenshinhan for the 23rd.

That's true. They even saw Goku fight all-out against Grand-Pa Gohan.

 

[Papasmurf]

We also see that 23rd Tenshinhan was capable of surpassing post-hax Goku and Piccolo Daimao's speed and power from 3 years ago just fine. Kuririn even thinks he has a fighting chance against Goku despite watching him tool Chappa and say that was him holding back (which made even Roshi worry). It just doesn't add up and can be explained by people overrating Tao. Especially since that's what happened with robot Tao

 

[Fantastische Hure]

We also see that 23rd Tenshinhan was capable of surpassing post-hax Goku and Piccolo Daimao's speed and power from 3 years ago just fine. Kuririn even thinks he has a fighting chance against Goku despite watching him tool Chappa and say that was him holding back (which made even Roshi worry). It just doesn't add up and can be explained by people overrating Tao. Especially since that's what happened with robot Tao

To be fair Cyborg Tao was only over-rated by those who didn't know him before. Tsuru-sen'nin thought he could win easily, but he didn't know how powerful they got.

 

[Papasmurf]

Ten overrated him too until he saw how shit Tao was after knocking him down in the beginning of their battle