The atrocity of Goku

[SSJ2]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how Goku went from this:

Spoiler

to this:

Spoiler

I find it baffling that Toyotaro had the nerve to say that he has the manga on hand at all times and frequently uses it as reference. All of the examples I've posted show two different characters who merely look the same (aside from Toyotaro's dreadful art). It's like Goku has become addicted to fighting as if it were a drug. When in the original manga did Goku constantly walk around with some idiotic grin on his face begging to fight strong enemies? There's no doubt that he wanted to test himself against enemies to push himself to his limits, but Super has simply taken it too far. It's as though he has no sense of danger anymore and has a complete inability to take things seriously. The Moro senzu bean situation is only the latest example of this out of a plethora of idiotic moments from Goku in Super. It sucks to see his character constantly be degraded to such low levels.

In short, fuck Toyo and fuck Super.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

To be fair, that was exactly Goku's attitude when sparing Piccolo and Vegeta, or when asking Enma to reincarnate Boo as a good guy. He's always been like this, only new material just made him a caricature of that.

And it's not just Toyotaro's fault: The anime has him as retarded as ever.

 

[SSJ2]

The difference is he didn't have a huge smile on his face when sparing those guys. He is literally ecstatic to fight strong people in Super when he never acted like that in Z. He expressed excitement but didn't act like a toddler about it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

iirc he also admitted to being selfish at the time

 

[Future Warrior]

I like you man but this point has already been said like 1000 times. This isn't anything new.

 

[SSJ2]

Where did I say that it was? I'm not allowed to post something that comes to mind?

 

[Future Warrior]

Of course you can, never said you couldn't.

 

[SSJ2]

I'm sure you can say the same thing about nearly every thread on this forum. If I feel strongly about something then I want to post about it regardless of whether I have in the past or not.

 

[Future Warrior]

Every thread on this forum? Not really. This thread was mostly a time waster for me personally cause it's just spelling out something that I was already aware of. If you feel that strongly about DBS Goku then you do you man. lol. Your allowed to post anything you want and I'm allowed to express my opinion.

 

[SSJ2]

What's truly a time waster is wasting your energy commenting on something you don't care about. Doesn't make much sense. Just move on if you're bothered.

 

[Future Warrior]

...2 sentences ain't that much energy. But it might be best to end the convo here since you took what I said personally for whatever reason despite my best efforts to not come across that way.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

It's like Goku has become addicted to fighting as if it were a drug. When in the original manga did Goku constantly walk around with some idiotic grin on his face begging to fight strong enemies?

Flanderization, DBS Goku's traits were taken and dialed up to 11. I personally think that after 20+ years an image of Goku has been created that everyone subscribes to, even Toriyama himself. I miss Toei Goku.

 

[ahill1]

My thoughts and feelings exactly, SSJ2. I feel the exact same way as you, you put in words every problem I've with Super Goku. It ain't just his actions of sparring enemies, he's just flat out more childish, like u said... his fucking smile when taking those actions and twirling eyebrows are all annoying and an infantilization of original DB Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

...2 sentences ain't that much energy. But it might be best to end the convo here since you took what I said personally for whatever reason despite my best efforts to not come across that way.

I just don't think this board needs unnecessary passive aggressiveness. It benefits nobody.

 

[SSJ2]

My thoughts and feelings exactly, SSJ2. I feel the exact same way as you, you put in words every problem I've with Super Goku. It ain't just his actions of sparring enemies, he's just flat out more childish, like u said... his fucking smile when taking those actions and twirling eyebrows are all annoying and an infantilization of original DB Goku.

I find it hard to believe that Toriyama would agree with Goku appearing in that way. Has he truly forgotten how Goku was written despite having supposedly read the manga before Battle of Gods? Goku never had those sort of facial expressions in Z.

 

[ahill1]

I find it hard to believe that Toriyama would agree with Goku appearing in that way. Has he truly forgotten how Goku was written despite having supposedly read the manga before Battle of Gods? Goku never had those sort of facial expressions in Z.

It's weird, but it seems Toriyama brainstorms every chapter with Toyotaro, so he doesn't appear to have a problem with that. It seems current Toriyama sees things differently. He changed Goku either consciously or unaware.

 

[Future Warrior]

I just don't think this board needs unnecessary passive aggressiveness. It benefits nobody.

Ight I apologize for my passive aggressiveness.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I find it hard to believe that Toriyama would agree with Goku appearing in that way. Has he truly forgotten how Goku was written despite having supposedly read the manga before Battle of Gods? Goku never had those sort of facial expressions in Z.

I think its pretty easy to explain for a variety of reasons, the first is that it had been over 20 years since Toriyama wrote Goku (with the exception of Neko Majin Z, where Goku showed up for a cameo.) Toriyama's really not the one writing the dialogue, character interactions, etc, except when he's correcting shit Toyo's done. And he literally does not care, he's admitted that he has no actual love for Dragon Ball, he's probably in it just through a sense of obligation.

 

[SSJ2]

I think its pretty easy to explain for a variety of reasons, the first is that it had been over 20 years since Toriyama wrote Goku (with the exception of Neko Majin Z, where Goku showed up for a cameo.) Toriyama's really not the one writing the dialogue, character interactions, etc, except when he's correcting shit Toyo's done. And he literally does not care, he's admitted that he has no actual love for Dragon Ball, he's probably in it just through a sense of obligation.

This was mainly the point I was getting at. Toyotaro is a self proclaimed fanboy of the series but has somehow developed such a twisted vision of the most important character. Toriyama having less involvement makes it more frustrating to me.. It would be easier to look past it if it was a senile 70 year old man doing all the work, but it's not.

 

[Keedounan]

I think its pretty easy to explain for a variety of reasons, the first is that it had been over 20 years since Toriyama wrote Goku (with the exception of Neko Majin Z, where Goku showed up for a cameo.) Toriyama's really not the one writing the dialogue, character interactions, etc, except when he's correcting shit Toyo's done. And he literally does not care, he's admitted that he has no actual love for Dragon Ball, he's probably in it just through a sense of obligation.

I find that pretty strange, considering his reaction to Dragon Ball Evolution.