The atrocity of Goku

[ahill1]

What did Toriyama say about DB Evolution?

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

I find that pretty strange, considering his reaction to Dragon Ball Evolution.

There's a difference between having fond memories of something he worked on for 11 years, but then there's also going back to it and working on it again. Dude's a gag mangaka, DB has distanced itself so much from the stuff he enjoys doing.

This was mainly the point I was getting at. Toyotaro is a self proclaimed fanboy of the series but has somehow developed such a twisted vision of the most important character.

When have fans ever been good at writing?

 

[Papasmurf]

Toyotaro isn't even just a fan anymore, he's Toriyama's co-author (who supposedly has far more influence on Super than the editor does) as well as the artist who draws every panel. He is burdened with the responsibility to stay faithful to the original work and has completely betrayed expectations by driving the series into the mud.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Toyotaro isn't even just a fan anymore, he's Toriyama's co-author (who supposedly has far more influence on Super than the editor does) as well as the artist who draws every panel. He is burdened with the responsibility to stay faithful to the original work and has completely betrayed expectations by driving the series into the mud.

Good thing the fans have 0 expectations for the series, or it might've been in trouble.

 

[Papasmurf]

Good thing the fans have 0 expectations for the series, or it might've been in trouble.

The fact that the last movie that aired before Super started was a movie about Freeza coming back to life in pieces and going from rusty to Blue tier in 4 months despite fearing a regular SSJ just before his death helped lower expectations

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

The fact that the last movie that aired before Super started was a movie about Freeza coming back to life in pieces and going from rusty to Blue tier in 4 months despite fearing a regular SSJ just before his death helped lower expectations

For real, it was amazing seeing the expectations of the Dragon Ball fandom slowly get lowered and lowered over the years. Evil Goku, God Ki Buu, Broly in DBS, return of Freeza, Super Saiyan white and all the recolors, all of this shit was endlessly mocked. Now its totally lapped up by the fandom. Amazing, I will never know how Toriyama did it.

 

[Papasmurf]

Back in 2006 they really thought that if they made Super DBZ (the PS2 video game that AT participated in) a series - and later DBO (another game AT worked on), it would be really great with AT at the helm as opposed to Toei. Super proved how wrong they were because AT was incapable of even remembering #18's hair color, thought Future Trunks had blue hair and that long hair was a trait of SSJ2.

Super even repeated most of GT's mistakes like wanking Galu and Vegeta exclusively while making the half-Saiyan kids rusty as fuck or irrelevant, making Piccolo one-shot fodder and introducing the stupidest asspulls for new villains possible and such. And when it tried to break that mold it just ended up cheapening God and Blue by making Gohan catch up to the latter in 20 minutes in the ToP, giving everyone and their mother (#17 and 18, Piccolo, Roshi etc.) asinine power boosts that would be laughed out of a 14 year old's fanfiction. I still don't know how AT got away with it all.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Super even repeated most of GT's mistakes like wanking Galu and Vegeta exclusively while making the half-Saiyan kids rusty as fuck or irrelevant, making Piccolo one-shot fodder and introducing the stupidest asspulls for new villains possible and such. And when it tried to break that mold it just ended up cheapening God and Blue by making Gohan catch up to the latter in 20 minutes in the ToP, giving everyone and their mother (#17 and 18, Piccolo, Roshi etc.) asinine power boosts that would be laughed out of a 14 year old's fanfiction. I still don't know how AT got away with it all.

Super is like GT on steroids, every mistake GT made was doubled down upon. But all of those power ups the ToP handed out like cotton candy also completely destroyed a commonly held narrative up until that point. Remember how people kept on saying if the humans/androids/piccolo all got power ups they'd be relevant? When Super actually gave them huge power ups, they were still thrown aside like trash.

Turns out the real thing holding the Z warriors back, isn't their power levels, but the fact that the writers don't give a shit about them.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Latest dbs chapter confirms that even with ultra instinct DBS Galu is still a worse fighter than GT Toeiku

 

[Keedounan]

Latest dbs chapter confirms that even with ultra instinct DBS Galu is still a worse fighter than GT Toeiku

So much for the hype behind this technique

 

[Southern Gothic]

I feel like Goku always wanted to scrap but when it came time to go against someone really strong he got serious about it.

What did Toriyama say about DB Evolution?

He hated it so much that he hijacked the initial Battle of Gods script that was in production without him and turned it into the story that we eventually got ( I believe the original script was something closer to Goku Black). DB Evolution is what made him come back to the series.

 

[Southern Gothic]

Adding to the main thread, it's not just Goku wanting to fight regardless of how appropriate it is but also the fact that he often lost. Didn't he lose multiple tournaments in DB? I know he for sure lost to Jackie Chun and Tenshinhan. It at least added some consequences to his desire to fight.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I feel like Goku always wanted to scrap but when it came time to go against someone really strong he got serious about it.

He hated it so much that he hijacked the initial Battle of Gods script that was in production without him and turned it into the story that we eventually got ( I believe the original script was something closer to Goku Black). DB Evolution is what made him come back to the series.

iirc initial story was something like the garlic jr. story or something i think l0l

 

[Southern Gothic]

iirc initial story was something like the garlic jr. story or something i think l0l

Could be, as I'm not sure at all if I'm remembering very well. Was it Garlic Jr. specifically or just a story that was similar?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

that was like garlic jr. i think. i might be able to find i think.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

here that is i think :

That was an element created entirely by Toriyama-sensei. I can’t write that. I felt that that kind of character, where you’d be in serious trouble if you came in contact with his wrath, was really like him. I had made Beerus more of a bad guy, and a kind of story where everyone is taken over and given an evil heart, but Toriyama-sensei in his way apparently felt that, “It’s after the earthquake, so I want it to be, not a tragic story, but a positive one,” and it came to have its present form.

source: kanzenshuu.com/translations/dvd-blu-ray-vision-april-2013-battle-of-gods/

 

[Southern Gothic]

I had thought it was about a shadow goku or something but now that you post it I think that's what we all were speculating it might have been based on that quote.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

>We could have gotten based Baby Beerus
>Toriyama turned him into a lame cat that he only ever uses as a moving goal post.

 

[Classic Adamas]

I don't get the hate for Toyo's art.

 

[SSJ2]

Every character looks like an anorexic mongoloid?