The Captain's assortment of random numbers

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why you think SSJ Gohan > Initla Fat Boo? Gohan implied he would need SSJ2 to defeat him.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Dabura scoffed at Fat Boo when first seeing him prior to the power up and Gohan himself was caught off guard, not seeming to view the Majin as amazing. Most likely, Boo's power lowered upon awakening until he started stomping Dabura, akin to a coffee cooling down after the kettle's intense boiling.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Dabura scoffed at Fat Boo when first seeing him prior to the power up and Gohan himself was caught off guard, not seeming to view the Majin as amazing. Most likely, Boo's power lowered upon awakening until he started stomping Dabura, akin to a coffee cooling down after the kettle's intense boiling.

Why Gohan thinks he needs full power to deal with Boo then?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Already explained it in that post. Boo's Ki when reawakening went down after he did so, then spiked up again once he hit Dabura, otherwise Gohan's reaction once seeing Boo wouldn't make too much sense. My guess as to why he didn't think there was more to Boo's power would be that perhaps he believed the reawakening to be botched at the last second or something.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Suppressed 1st Form Freeza has to be stronger than 265,000.
Look at Piccolo's face when he senses Freeza for the first time.

530,000 > Suppressed Freeza > Piccolo's Full Power.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold are not differentiated from each other. They should be near equals, nothing suggests otherwise.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

I don't like Great Ape Gohan being as strong as Nappa. Gohan should be under the God's imo.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Vegeta states that Gohan and Krillen are strong enough to turn the tides against 530k Freeza.

Vegeta states that Piccolo and Gohan would just get in the way and were useless against Freeza.

You have Gohan at 56% of Freeza and Krillen at 47% of Freeza.

Yet you have Piccolo at 66% of Freeza and you don't have a clear number for Enraged Gohan Post Zenkai, who should undoubtedly surpass Piccolo as he always does.

If this were true, Vegeta ganging up on Freeza with Piccolo and Gohan would have been optional. Instead, the viewer is sold the idea that it's Vegeta or bust.

I know you are just trying to make the guidenooks numbers work, but the manga has to come first.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Very good list though CC. This is a perfect blend of guidebook logic and our logic combined. You know how I feel about the guidebooks, but if you are going to do it, at least you are doing it right.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Initial Buu > Gohan/Dabura

Dabura is an idiot who can't sense ki. Gohan thinks the awakening is botched because they are fighting with each other. Can't be a power issue, Gohan already stated he is inferior to Buu's power and that he needs his enraged power from the Cell Game to be able to handle Buu.

Enraged Gohan > Initial Buu > Super Saiyan 2 Gohan/Majin Dabura

Dabura is lost even after Buu powers up and Gohan's mouth is about to ripped off by how agape it is due to his shock.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Suppressed 1st Form Freeza has to be stronger than 265,000.
Look at Piccolo's face when he senses Freeza for the first time.

530,000 > Suppressed Freeza > Piccolo's Full Power.

A simple mistake. I forgot Freeza had yet to power up at that time.

Suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold are not differentiated from each other. They should be near equals, nothing suggests otherwise.

Does it matter?

I don't like Great Ape Gohan being as strong as Nappa. Gohan should be under the God's imo.

Based on?

Vegeta states that Gohan and Krillin are strong enough to turn the tides against 530k Freeza.
Vegeta states that Piccolo and Gohan would just get in the way and were useless against Freeza.
You have Gohan at 56% of Freeza and Krillin at 47% of Freeza.
Yet you have Piccolo at 66% of Freeza and you don't have a clear number for Enraged Gohan Post Zenkai, who should undoubtedly surpass Piccolo as he always does.

Piccolo was dead-set on saving Gohan and Kuririn. If Gohan's exposition of Piccolo not partaking in a battle without a chance of victory is anything to go by, he should be of more use than Gohan and Kuririn individually. The trio not factoring him into the equation means little when it was inevitable that Freeza would arrive at the area before Piccolo and the battle may be concluded within that timeframe.

I know you are just trying to make the guidenooks numbers work, but the manga has to come first.

Coming from the guy who creates his own headcannon in regard to numbers because he considers the manga too flawed, that' rich.
Manga has Roshi being over 1/3 the power of Unweighted Goku at the start of the series despite nothing implying Roshi continued training and it contradicting what so called "battle power logic" the fans project on the series. Battle Powers were never meant to be taken seriously in the first place, something Toriyama's made clear multiple times.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

..

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

1) Sure, if you like logic. If fighters are grouped together, yet not differentiated, they should be of the same class. The Super Saiyans in the Androids Saga, the Ginyu Force on Namek, Weighted Piccolo and the Androids. Why do it for them and not for Freeza and King Cold? They are clearly grouped together as behemoths.


2) Natural progression. Does it really make sense for Gohan's Great Ape form to be superior to the next villains at this point of the story?

3) I have no idea what you are talking about here. What I'm trying to tell you is that you have Piccolo and Gohan's battle power far too relevant to True Form Freeza's level. (Gohan and Krillen @1st Form Freeza) >> (Piccolo and Gohan @Initial True Form Freeza). Gohan and Krillen are powerful enough to help out, whereas Piccolo and Gohan are useless against the behemoth might of Freeza.


4) It's not really head canon. I don't make this stuff up just to make it up. If the in universe characters are saying something different than what the author's slopped together numerical standpoint is, I'm siding with the characters.

Oh, but battle powers are everything to the in universe characters, it seems that is what you don't understand. My system accounts for the errors of the author in light of the characters.

The author made a mistake with Roshi's battle power. He never had the character's suggest any of the sort. He simply did not think it through, if he had someone like me around when he was creating these numbers, his numbers would be far superior because I'd be able to show him the error of his ways.

When two statements contradict each other, which side do you choose? I choose the characters over Toriyama's sloppy battle power numbers like any reasonable person should.

Piccolo Daimao is like a God to Roshi, yet he has to be quite relevant to not only Old Piccolo Daimao, which is laughable at best, but even Young Piccolo Daimao's full power! It's insanity.

The author clearly forgot about the events of the 23rd Budokai, he states himself he is a very forgetful person, so why ruin the entire chain of logic for something like that. Where's the logic in that?

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Do you really think Gohan only slightly surpasses Piccolo when the Saiyans arrive? That is a cop out imo, Gohan should be solidly above Piccolo. If Piccolo's reactions tell us anything by Gohan's kick on Nappa, it's more than you are suggesting.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

How big do you have the Kami boost for Piccolo on Name? If it's 2x, Kamiccolo on Name would be 700k, that's too much for his weighted power.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

Why do Future Gohan and Trunks have a 10x boost? Where is that implied that they have a reduced version of Super Saiyan? And then Trunks goes back to 50 after? Nah meng

 

[Captain Cadaver]

1) Sure, if you like logic. If fighters are grouped together, yet not differentiated, they should be of the same class. The Super Saiyans in the Androids Saga, the Ginyu Force on Namek, Weighted Piccolo and the Androids. Why do it for them and not for Freeza and King Cold? They are clearly grouped together as behemoths.

And again, why does one being superior to the other matter in the slightest? They're both within the same range and a gap is not noted for the sheer fact that it would be irrelevant. To complain that the numbers aren't exactly equal is the height of nitpicking over a pointless matter.

2) Natural progression. Does it really make sense for Gohan's Great Ape form to be superior to the next villains at this point of the story?

Not only is it a temporary power up, but it doesn't contradict natural progression at all. The only villains aside from Freeza that are treat as a step up in tiers in any way are Zarbon, Dodoria and Cui. Once again, nitpicking, and this time without viable evidence.

3) I have no idea what you are talking about here. What I'm trying to tell you is that you have Piccolo and Gohan's battle power far too relevant to True Form Freeza's level. (Gohan and Krillin @1st Form Freeza) >> (Piccolo and Gohan @Initial True Form Freeza). Gohan and Krillin are powerful enough to help out, whereas Piccolo and Gohan are useless against the behemoth might of Freeza.

The humans' power would be far too close to Piccolo's at the 23rd TB going by the numbers Toriyama himself provided at the start of Z, yet it didn't stop him.

4) It's not really head canon. I don't make this stuff up just to make it up. If the in universe characters are saying something different than what the author's slopped together numerical standpoint is, I'm siding with the characters.

Oh, but battle powers are everything to the in universe characters, it seems that is what you don't understand. My system accounts for the errors of the author in light of the characters.

Contradicting numbers stated within the series itself in favour of your own is the very definition of headcannon. It seems you're simply too deluded to see that.

Battle Powers only mean much in-series in terms of who has the bigger number. Things like gaps are purely a fan interpretation that has no bearing on the actual plot, especially for segments of the series both before and after the use of them was relevant. From a story perspective, their purpose was just as a way of making it clear which character was stronger than who and for villains to underestimate the heroes due to the high fluctuation of these numbers, not for things like gaps to be obsessed over by the fans to the point of pure autism.

The author made a mistake with Roshi's battle power. He never had the character's suggest any of the sort. He simply did not think it through, if he had someone like me around when he was creating these numbers, his numbers would be far superior because I'd be able to show him the error of his ways.

The author clearly forgot about the events of the 23rd Budokai, he states himself he is a very forgetful person, so why ruin the entire chain of logic for something like that. Where's the logic in that?

He never cited such as a mistake, nor made it apparent he forgot all the events of that arc. The only truth mentioned here is that he indeed didn't think things through, which is for the clear reason that what number he gave has little bearing on the actual events of the plot.

Gaps were never consistent from the start and you can't simply erase numbers given within the actual series because your's are apparently "superior". It's not as though you're the author.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

1) They don't have to be equal CC, but they should be at a rivaling range at least. You have Freeza at 84% of King Cold. I'd like to see this in an above 90% range if possible, thank you sir! Get right on it! Chop, Chop! Wooo!

2) Fair enough on Great Ape Gohan. From a story telling standpoint, I feel I'm right, but whatevs...

3) If you are going to be a madman and go by the BOZ numbers, then you should also accept that Roshi and the humans made massive gains of power to catch up to Goku and Piccolo, unless you like chaos. Is this what you choose to believe or you think the humans placement is appropriate considering that 100s of their numbers wouldn't do anything to Piccolo Jr? Also, what you are doing, cop out! You know I'm right here, boy!

4) You are wrong, the author makes mistakes. I do the extra, I do the series justice. I give credit to the excellent storytelling the author has done and has tried to ruin on his own account. I give the proper respect to the storytelling of Roshi finding happiness in the new generation coming, gladly stepping down and finally letting go of his precious title. I give respect to the epic 23rd Budokai, which had the actual Devil take on God and no one could stand in his path, but Goku. I fix, what is broken. I am the alpha and the omega of this power level shit, praise the sun!

5) If he forgot that he forgot he wouldn't be able to tell us now. It's most realistic to think he doesn't think this deeply about this kind of stuff, that's what he has stepped out of the way for the One True God King of the power level community to figure this all out. Don't you see CC?

Well CC, you are holding up pretty well to this full court press of mine, I'm not done with you yet, but keep those panies on, it is almost over!!!

And you are right! I am not the author! I am capable of adding 2+2! I am superior to the author in every which way in this realm, for I am the alpha and the omega.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

4) You are wrong, the author makes mistakes. I do the extra, I do the series justice. I give credit to the excellent storytelling the author has done and has tried to ruin on his own account. I give the proper respect to the storytelling of Roshi finding happiness in the new generation coming, gladly stepping down and finally letting go of his precious title. I give respect to the epic 23rd Budokai, which had the actual Devil take on God and no one could stand in his path, but Goku. I fix, what is broken. I am the alpha and the omega of this power level shit, praise the sun!

And such irrelevant a thing as "gap consistency" doesn't do credit to the story, nor fixes the actual problems with writing consistency in the series.

5) If he forgot that he forgot he wouldn't be able to tell us now. It's most realistic to think he doesn't think this deeply about this kind of stuff, that's what he has stepped out of the way for the One True God King of the power level community to figure this all out. Don't you see CC?

Which is exactly why you shouldn't care how much someone cares about what is at the end of the day a plot device of random numbers that was thrown away after two arcs.

And you are right! I am not the author! I am capable of adding 2+2! I am superior to the author in every which way in this realm, for I am the alpha and the omega.

If you believe numbers and gaps are anywhere near as, if not more, important than actual plot and character writing/consistency as a way of dictating the flow of a series' story, then you clearly aren't superior to any worthwhile author.

 

[Super Saiyan Masta Don]

But CC, I am the Alpha and the Omega...