The worst asspull in Future Trunks arc ?

[ahill1]

Anime-wise, maybe the Potara timelimit. I can't wrap that into my head, nothing in the manga ever came close to imply that, and it kind of came out of nowhere to justify Vegetto not taking the spotlight imo.

Manga-wise, it'd be Goku's CSSJB. I mean, out of all the times he just left to use it when Merged Zamasu had already beated everyone's ass, as well as being completely amazed by Vegeta's plan of switching from SSJG to Blue (as well as saying he was a genius and that what he did at the Tournament was completely overwhelmed by it) ehen he just had a way more developed version than what Vegeta had that could allow him to fight on par with a fricking Potara fusion between Black and Zamasu? Meh.

 

[ahill1]

Manga:

6)Zamasu's defusion: so Gattai Zamasu has a time limit supposedly because he usurped the position of a Kaioshin...if the potaras could detect such an usurpation, why does the usurpation even work ? And why is there no way to keep the usurpator from using the time ring ? Kaioshins must be pretty stupid for designing their treasure so badly. But then, there is the whole bullshit about Black and Future Zamasu who are bonded on a cellular level since they're both Zamasu, even though their bodies are completely different, as well as them somehow turning back into Gattai Zamasu and unlocking a broken version of the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu...this is dumb on so many levels.

7)Trunks' healing ability: It's more of a build-up issue, but why Future Shin or Future Kibito had the bright idea to not tell anything about Trunks' ability to heal people, which could have saved many lives ? Why the Kaioshins lose such an handy ability when they graduate from disciples ? Besides, there is a retcon: Toyotaro claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai, yet in the chapter proper in which Trunks made a physical contact, she showed no sign of being healed and was still out cold for an entire day.

8)Goku's Hakai: literally comes out of nowhere, since unlike in Anime, Goku wasn't with Beerus when he first used it on panel, yet somehow knows about it. Some build-up could have easily fixed this.

All things considered, I'll settle for Giygas!Zamasu, if only because in addition to being blatantly contrived (no effort was spared to explain how Zamasu is doing that, let alone in such an absurdly large scale), it forced a completely unnecessary ending.

You can prepare yourself for freezamite when he is back : :molest

 

[Keedounan]

Manga:

6)Zamasu's defusion: so Gattai Zamasu has a time limit supposedly because he usurped the position of a Kaioshin...if the potaras could detect such an usurpation, why does the usurpation even work ? And why is there no way to keep the usurpator from using the time ring ? Kaioshins must be pretty stupid for designing their treasure so badly. But then, there is the whole bullshit about Black and Future Zamasu who are bonded on a cellular level since they're both Zamasu, even though their bodies are completely different, as well as them somehow turning back into Gattai Zamasu and unlocking a broken version of the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu...this is dumb on so many levels.

7)Trunks' healing ability: It's more of a build-up issue, but why Future Shin or Future Kibito had the bright idea to not tell anything about Trunks' ability to heal people, which could have saved many lives ? Why the Kaioshins lose such an handy ability when they graduate from disciples ? Besides, there is a retcon: Toyotaro claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai, yet in the chapter proper in which Trunks made a physical contact, she showed no sign of being healed and was still out cold for an entire day.

8)Goku's Hakai: literally comes out of nowhere, since unlike in Anime, Goku wasn't with Beerus when he first used it on panel, yet somehow knows about it. Some build-up could have easily fixed this.

All things considered, I'll settle for Giygas!Zamasu, if only because in addition to being blatantly contrived (no effort was spared to explain how Zamasu is doing that, let alone in such an absurdly large scale), it forced a completely unnecessary ending.

You can prepare yourself for freezamite when he is back : :molest

What was his arguments against this ?

 

[ahill1]

Manga:

6)Zamasu's defusion: so Gattai Zamasu has a time limit supposedly because he usurped the position of a Kaioshin...if the potaras could detect such an usurpation, why does the usurpation even work ? And why is there no way to keep the usurpator from using the time ring ? Kaioshins must be pretty stupid for designing their treasure so badly. But then, there is the whole bullshit about Black and Future Zamasu who are bonded on a cellular level since they're both Zamasu, even though their bodies are completely different, as well as them somehow turning back into Gattai Zamasu and unlocking a broken version of the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu...this is dumb on so many levels.

7)Trunks' healing ability: It's more of a build-up issue, but why Future Shin or Future Kibito had the bright idea to not tell anything about Trunks' ability to heal people, which could have saved many lives ? Why the Kaioshins lose such an handy ability when they graduate from disciples ? Besides, there is a retcon: Toyotaro claimed Trunks unconsciously healed Mai, yet in the chapter proper in which Trunks made a physical contact, she showed no sign of being healed and was still out cold for an entire day.

8)Goku's Hakai: literally comes out of nowhere, since unlike in Anime, Goku wasn't with Beerus when he first used it on panel, yet somehow knows about it. Some build-up could have easily fixed this.

All things considered, I'll settle for Giygas!Zamasu, if only because in addition to being blatantly contrived (no effort was spared to explain how Zamasu is doing that, let alone in such an absurdly large scale), it forced a completely unnecessary ending.

You can prepare yourself for freezamite when he is back : :molest

What was his arguments against this ?

I don't remember exactly, but I do remember he was against everyone who thought the manga had its asspulls. Wait a minute, I can give you a link:

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?t=10535

 

[Keedounan]

Anime-wise, maybe the Potara timelimit. I can't wrap that into my head, nothing in the manga ever came close to imply that, and it kind of came out of nowhere to justify Vegetto not taking the spotlight imo.

Do you know the worst part of it ? Now that it's clearly not permanent, there isn't any good excuse for the characters NOT using the Potara earrings everytime the protagonists needs more power (other than stupidity, of course). I mean, at least, the metamorian fusion takes some practice to do it correctly, and it's risky if you miss, but you just need to put some earrings for the Potara fusion. And it's stronger too.

From the looks of it, they're not even forbidden in the Tournament of Power, which doesn't even last 1 hour. So why don't they just fuse as Vegetto to destroy everyone in the tournament, Jiren included ?

 

[ahill1]

Anime-wise, maybe the Potara timelimit. I can't wrap that into my head, nothing in the manga ever came close to imply that, and it kind of came out of nowhere to justify Vegetto not taking the spotlight imo.

Do you know the worst part of it ? Now that it's clearly not permanent, there isn't any good excuse for the characters NOT using them everytime the protagonists needs more power (other than stupidity, of course). I mean, at least, the metamorian fusion takes some practice to do it correctly, and it's risky if you miss, but you just need to put some earrings for the Potara fusion. And it's stronger too.

From the looks of it, they're not even forbidden in the Tournament of Power, which doesn't even last 1 hour. So why don't they just fuse as Vegetto to destroy everyone in the tournament, Jiren included ?

Agreed. Interesting enough though, as per a recent interview, inrroduccing Vegetto in the Zamasu's saga wasn't even Toriyama's idea, according to Toyotaro Toriyama had Merged Zamasu weak enough that Goku and Vegeta, while in Blue, could manage something against him fighting together.

Although it wouldn't lead to the "1 hour asspull" you could argue it'd make the Potara's power boost kind of underwhelming, I guess.

 

[Papasmurf]

It was still made underwhelming in the end by CSSJB coming out of nowhere and equaling it off the bat

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, although one could argue the CSSJB is that big of an advantage, be it because the power loss in Blue is just that extreme or because it grants a pretty substiantial power boost on top of it.

 

[Keedounan]

Anime-wise, maybe the Potara timelimit. I can't wrap that into my head, nothing in the manga ever came close to imply that, and it kind of came out of nowhere to justify Vegetto not taking the spotlight imo.

Do you know the worst part of it ? Now that it's clearly not permanent, there isn't any good excuse for the characters NOT using them everytime the protagonists needs more power (other than stupidity, of course). I mean, at least, the metamorian fusion takes some practice to do it correctly, and it's risky if you miss, but you just need to put some earrings for the Potara fusion. And it's stronger too.

From the looks of it, they're not even forbidden in the Tournament of Power, which doesn't even last 1 hour. So why don't they just fuse as Vegetto to destroy everyone in the tournament, Jiren included ?

Agreed. Interesting enough though, as per a recent interview, inrroduccing Vegetto in the Zamasu's saga wasn't even Toriyama's idea, according to Toyotaro Toriyama had Merged Zamasu weak enough that Goku and Vegeta, while in Blue, could manage something against him fighting together.

Although it wouldn't lead to the "1 hour asspull" you could argue it'd make the Potara's power boost kind of underwhelming, I guess.

Oh boy...

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I don't see what's wrong with Potara's limit though. Vegito got defused inside Boo's body and Elder Kaioshin didn't tell us anything why it happened and all we got is Goku's assumption not a fact. Gowasu gave us the reason why it happened.

 

[Keedounan]

I don't see what's wrong with Potara's limit though.

This:

Vegetto defusing inside Super Boo was already an asspull, though somewhat mitigated by Goku's assumption. Then we learn that the fusion wasn't so permanent after all...why did they decide to tell us about it twenty years later ? How the hell someone who has as much knowledge on the universe as Old Kai didn't know about it, yet Gowasu somehow knows ? The as-a-matter-of-fact way in which this information was delivered nake it sound like it should have been obvious...so all that bullshit about Goku and Vegeta abandonning their identities, their personal lives for the sake of protecting the universe were for absolutely nothing since it was never supposed to be permanent in the first place ? Talk about bad writing.

Do you know the worst part of it ? Now that it's clearly not permanent, there isn't any good excuse for the characters NOT using the Potara earrings everytime the protagonists needs more power (other than stupidity, of course). I mean, at least, the metamorian fusion takes some practice to do it correctly, and it's risky if you miss, but you just need to put some earrings for the Potara fusion. And it's stronger too.

From the looks of it, they're not even forbidden in the Tournament of Power, which doesn't even last 1 hour. So why don't they just fuse as Vegetto to destroy everyone in the tournament, Jiren included ?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I don't see what's wrong with Potara's limit though.

This:

Vegetto defusing inside Super Boo was already an asspull, though somewhat mitigated by Goku's assumption. Then we learn that the fusion wasn't so permanent after all...why did they decide to tell us about it twenty years later ? How the hell someone who has as much knowledge on the universe as Old Kai didn't know about it, yet Gowasu somehow knows ? The as-a-matter-of-fact way in which this information was delivered nake it sound like it should have been obvious...so all that bullshit about Goku and Vegeta abandonning their identities, their personal lives for the sake of protecting the universe were for absolutely nothing since it was never supposed to be permanent in the first place ? Talk about bad writing.

Do you know the worst part of it ? Now that it's clearly not permanent, there isn't any good excuse for the characters NOT using the Potara earrings everytime the protagonists needs more power (other than stupidity, of course). I mean, at least, the metamorian fusion takes some practice to do it correctly, and it's risky if you miss, but you just need to put some earrings for the Potara fusion. And it's stronger too.

From the looks of it, they're not even forbidden in the Tournament of Power, which doesn't even last 1 hour. So why don't they just fuse as Vegetto to destroy everyone in the tournament, Jiren included ?

I know its a bad writing and never denied it but since there's no explanation of Vegito defusing inside Buu's body then that means Potara isn't permanent at all at least depends on individual given that Kibito Kai and Elder Kaioshin are still permanent [not Kibito Kai anymore] but Vegito is not. It's a question for DBZ's bad writing and Super just came later on to correct it that's all. Stupidity is what causes for Goku and Vegeta not using Potara, that's the only explanation. Remember at the end of FnF where Goku said to Vegeta that if they'll work together then they might defeat Frieza and both agreed but they don't want to work together because of their pride? Yeah, stupidity is the only answer for them not wanting to work together.

It's a DBZ problem of not explaining the defusion of Vegito and Super just found a way to explained it.

 

[ahill1]

The reason for Goku and Vegeta defusing inside Boo's body wasn't so clear, but it was pretty well assumed it was due Boo's body and the incompabillity of it with things that are related to Kaioshin. The Boo-Kaioshin incompabillity was already presented to us when Kaioshin's energy shouldn't be used to revive Boo, and when Boo's absorptions of the Kaioshins seemed to work in a different way from the absorptions of the Z warriors. When seeing the kids defused inside Boo's body, Vegeta stated that they couldn't maintain the Metamoru fusion inside Boo as well, to which Goku stated was because their time was up and that, therefore, they could perform the Metamoru fusion inside Boo's body, indicating the time being up is a thing for the fusion dance, whilst it's someone else for the Potara.

In the Daizenshuu 4 it's presented the already implied explanation in the manga, in which the air in Boo's body works against the maintenance of the Potara fusion, which imo works better than the time simply being up, which just doesn't kind of underwhelm old Kaioshin's knowledge, who apparently was a Potara's expert knowing its boost is even superior to the fusion Dance, as well as knowing about the SSJ transformations, but goes back to the Boo-Kaioshin incompabillity, as well as not forcing the whole fight between Vegetto and Boo to last an hour, fight which, in the manga, wasn't SO LONG as its anime counterpart, and has Vegetto immediately transforming into SSJ.

Even more so when it seems seemingly long fights in the manga like the one between Goku SSJ and Freeza [5 minutes] or the one between the Z warriors and Freeza lasted considerably less than an hour, although I do grant that calculating it in a manga might be troublesome.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

The spirit bomb was badass, the portara time limit didn't have to last an hour. They never had to say anything.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The reason for Goku and Vegeta defusing inside Boo's body wasn't so clear, but it was pretty well assumed it was due Boo's body and the incompabillity of it with things that are related to Kaioshin. The Boo-Kaioshin incompabillity was already presented to us when Kaioshin's energy shouldn't be used to revive Boo, and when Boo's absorptions of the Kaioshins seemed to work in a different way from the absorptions of the Z warriors. When seeing the kids defused inside Boo's body, Vegeta stated that they couldn't maintain the Metamoru fusion inside Boo as well, to which Goku stated was because their time was up and that, therefore, they could perform the Metamoru fusion inside Boo's body, indicating the time being up is a thing for the fusion dance, whilst it's someone else for the Potara.

In the Daizenshuu 4 it's presented the already implied explanation in the manga, in which the air in Boo's body works against the maintenance of the Potara fusion, which imo works better than the time simply being up, which just doesn't kind of underwhelm old Kaioshin's knowledge, who apparently was a Potara's expert knowing its boost is even superior to the fusion Dance, as well as knowing about the SSJ transformations, but goes back to the Boo-Kaioshin incompabillity, as well as not forcing the whole fight between Vegetto and Boo to last an hour, fight which, in the manga, wasn't SO LONG as its anime counterpart, and has Vegetto immediately transforming into SSJ.

Even more so when it seems seemingly long fights in the manga like the one between Goku SSJ and Freeza [5 minutes] or the one between the Z warriors and Freeza lasted considerably less than an hour, although I do grant that calculating it in a manga might be troublesome.

The manga and anime just made an assumption that's all. Daizenshuu is a secondary source so that's OK but with Toriyama this time makes things clear > Daizenshuu.

There was no answer on what happened to Vegito inside Boo's body. Super merely explained it and yet fans find it ridiculous.

 

[Void]

The Trunks Ultra Salty Spirit Bomb was the most egregious one. They're all pretty bad, honestly. Man that arc went downhill.

 

[SSJPoo]

Gohan getting spanked around the theme park in the canon movie

in the show, the android hax, 17

 

[ahill1]

The manga and anime just made an assumption that's all. Daizenshuu is a secondary source so that's OK but with Toriyama this time makes things clear > Daizenshuu.

There was no answer on what happened to Vegito inside Boo's body. Super merely explained it and yet fans find it ridiculous.

Me, like many other fans, find it kind of an aspull, as in, it wasn't clearly on the writter's mind at that time. Vegetto having a time limit was something written now in Super, but it's clear that, in the original manga, nobody was thinking about it, and Akira Toriyama apparently didn't even intend to shed light on this time limit thing, considering he didn't even plan to make Vegetto until Toyotaro brought this up.

Nobody is denying it is the thing NOW, just saying that this idea wasn't present nor even hinted at when the original manga was still kicking and the explanation everyone was going with then was probably the incompabillity thing.

 

[SSJPoo]

The manga and anime just made an assumption that's all. Daizenshuu is a secondary source so that's OK but with Toriyama this time makes things clear > Daizenshuu.

There was no answer on what happened to Vegito inside Boo's body. Super merely explained it and yet fans find it ridiculous.

Me, like many other fans, find it kind of an aspull, as in, it wasn't clearly on the writter's mind at that time. Vegetto having a time limit was something written now in Super, but it's clear that, in the original manga, nobody was thinking about it, and Akira Toriyama apparently didn't even intend to shed light on this time limit thing, considering he didn't even plan to make Vegetto until Toyotaro brought this up.

Nobody is denying it is the thing NOW, just saying that this idea wasn't present nor even hinted at when the original manga was still kicking and the explanation everyone was going with then was probably the incompabillity thing.

So are you indicating Toriyama just creates pulling random shit out of his ass?

 

[ahill1]

The manga and anime just made an assumption that's all. Daizenshuu is a secondary source so that's OK but with Toriyama this time makes things clear > Daizenshuu.

There was no answer on what happened to Vegito inside Boo's body. Super merely explained it and yet fans find it ridiculous.

Me, like many other fans, find it kind of an aspull, as in, it wasn't clearly on the writter's mind at that time. Vegetto having a time limit was something written now in Super, but it's clear that, in the original manga, nobody was thinking about it, and Akira Toriyama apparently didn't even intend to shed light on this time limit thing, considering he didn't even plan to make Vegetto until Toyotaro brought this up.

Nobody is denying it is the thing NOW, just saying that this idea wasn't present nor even hinted at when the original manga was still kicking and the explanation everyone was going with then was probably the incompabillity thing.

So are you indicating Toriyama just creates pulling random shit out of his ass?

Yes, sometimes. Or are you gonna say me he was always going with Vegetto having a timelimit but didn't even hint this as being the case in the original manga and probably wouldn't even do so if it weren't for Toyotaro's idea in bringing up Vegetto?