Toriyama STILL doesn't remember his own manga?

[SSJ2]

So people seem to like to argue that Toriyama fully knows everything about the manga because he reread it recently, so Super is a perfect continuation of the manga. Well what about Goku claiming that even regular Super Saiyan form will drain his stamina badly? He starts his fight with Hit in Base when he is already a master of Super Saiyan, so it should essentially be his Base. I just can't get over how ridiculous this is.

 

[Mystic]

This is why Super should be considered non-canon.

If you like it, fine, but don't use this new material to try and change facts within the old material.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah, that statement alone is enough to prove that Toriyama is still a senile cunt.

 

[Papasmurf]

No wonder Gohan was having trouble with SSJ in the last arc. I guess SSJ2's strain is so high you can't maintain it for longer than some dude with severe premature ejaculation, and SSJ3 would kill you in about 45 seconds.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think it later states that Super Saiyan Blue has perfect ki control, which is why it works with Kaioken. Basically they are just wanking Goku again.

 

[Uchiha]

While I agree AT is an old man who forgot most of the series and his opinions shouldn't be taken seriously, I'm pretty sure Super is mainly written by Toei making it even a less viable source than before.

In the original manga you at least get the feel AT was somewhat consistent with his power chains if you analyze them properly. Toei was only interested in exaggerating Goku's power in the movies they were responsible for, as is seen GT and now Super.

 

[SSJ2]

Tell that to the people who think Toriyama has his dick all over the anime's script ^

 

[Papasmurf]

Toriyama's said before that he gives Toyotaro some basic ideas for his manga, and then he expands upon them and Toei bases much of the anime on that. He's not directly involved with the writing process of the anime, and it'd feel strange for him to openly complain about it if he was involved.

 

[kriss-]

Akira Toriyama has already read through the original Mangas serialization. Because he is as fluent in the Japanese language as we are with English, it's simply an insult to determine that he is incapable of understanding his own Manga, especially when he wrote the entire thing.

The interviews can be looked at exactly for what they are. They explain Akira Toriyama's perspective on this matter perfectly. He elaborates on the Super Saiyan transformation by saying that Goku will use the transformation itself to break past his current limitations and to increase his strength. Because he's doing this, shouldn't it be clear as day that it will also burden his body more? He mastered it at the level he was previously at but he is currently entering the realm beyond.

I fail to see a reason to disregard Akira Toriyama on essentially anything without first examining the reasoning behind said statements or implications.

 

[Mystic]

Toriyama is old and silly, he doesn't take his work as seriously as we do. I'm not knocking the guy, but it's not shocking or unbelievable that he'd forget these things.

I'd say a good chunk of this forum knows far more about his own work than he does.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't think it's not only that he forgot, but I'm also sure I remember him blatantly saying that he doesn't care about consistency, since it's his work and he can do with it what he wants.

 

[Uchiha]

Akira Toriyama has already read through the original Mangas serialization. Because he is as fluent in the Japanese language as we are with English, it's simply an insult to determine that he is incapable of understanding his own Manga, especially when he wrote the entire thing.

The interviews can be looked at exactly for what they are. They explain Akira Toriyama's perspective on this matter perfectly. He elaborates on the Super Saiyan transformation by saying that Goku will use the transformation itself to break past his current limitations and to increase his strength. Because he's doing this, shouldn't it be clear as day that it will also burden his body more? He mastered it at the level he was previously at but he is currently entering the realm beyond.

I fail to see a reason to disregard Akira Toriyama on essentially anything without first examining the reasoning behind said statements or implications.

The reason is because his interviews have shown he's directly contradicted older interviews when he originally wrote the manga. You're assuming that rereading the manga or writing the manga makes him infallible which is kinda dumb. Getting old and senile is easily possible.

 

[kriss-]

If you dwell into his interviews and attempt to figure out solutions as opposed to taking everything at face value –which is lazy, you realize that there aren’t really a whole lot of contradictions that occur. There are a few, but he is the original author and he is free to change the story as he sees fit. He knows more about the story then you ever will and he will always hold authority over you; the fan and interpreter of the said story. Referring to Akira Toriyama as old and senile, despite knowing absolutely nothing about the man’s personal life or the man in general, is highly offensive and sheds light on how you view the new material and its author, which isn’t commendable or respectable at all.

 

[Uchiha]

I'm not saying he isn't free to change the story, just that there's a ton of evidence he forgot the original story. But no, he doesn't know more about the original manga than a lot of his fans. His interpretation, while I respect it, is just another interpretation. You're pulling his god like authority out of your ass. Sure I get that a lot of people do see the author as ultimate interpretation but it's not really based on anything. If I've learned anything in my literature classes it's that the author's intentions aren't quite as important as how the readers interpret it (see Death of the Author). While you can use context of the author's historical stand point to better understand the manga (such as the Saiyans being the foreigners post WWII), that in itself shouldn't have any bearing as to canceling out what the original story said.

Someone can memorize the manga line by line and defeat AT on remembering the story. Does that mean that AT's misremembered version is better? No, it doesn't, at least to people that don't see it that way. I don't respect the viewpoint that people would prefer the misremembered version over the exact version. My lack of respect for AT has no bearing on the evidence that he's forgotten his story. Not to mention that Super goes through a lot of filters and AT hardly writes all of it (only saving grace).

 

[kriss-]

You are trying to establish that you know his story better then he does, this simply an absurd statement that completely false. Akira Toriyama typically writes off a plot for Toei and he lets them do whatever they want and how they see fit in doing it, so the events in Dragonball Super are not entirely the fault of Akira Toriyama –rather, the fault of Toei Animation, which is prone to making contradictions that do not collaborate with the story. The biggest mistake you are making, is assuming that it is entirely Toriyama’s fault, it isn’t. Furthermore, you go into detail by insulting his intelligence and assume things that you could not possibly know. It's insulting and completely disrespectful.

 

[Uchiha]

You are trying to establish that you know his story better then he does, this simply an absurd statement that completely false

That's not what I'm saying but I imagine that would be easier to argue against. I'm saying that AT is not infallible and it is possible for him to forget his manga. Someone who is recanting facts with the manga directly in front of them is going to get more details correct than an old man who reread the manga once. It has nothing to do with being superior to AT himself. It's just a recognition that he can forget.

Akira Toriyama typically writes off a plot for Toei and he lets them do whatever they want and how they see fit in doing it, so the events in Dragonball Super are not entirely the fault of Akira Toriyama –rather, the fault of Toei Animation, which is prone to making contradictions that do not collaborate with the story. The biggest mistake you are making, is assuming that it is entirely Toriyama’s fault, it isn’t. Furthermore, you go into detail by insulting his intelligence and assume things that you could not possibly know. It's insulting and completely disrespectful.

I already mentioned this above and agreed with it. Most of the things in Super are probably not his fault because he didn't write them. Which makes Super even less of a good source of factual material that it was before when we thought AT was at the helm.

I don't care if I insult AT's intelligence or disrespect him. My lack of respect doesn't take away from the argument.

 

[kriss-]

Regardless of the fact that Akira Toriyama likely did forget his Manga a few years ago, he has recently covered his ass by proof-reading the entire Japanese Manga. Because Herms is unable to clarify certain aspects of the Manga in his translations, it makes Akira Toriyama's interpretation more accurate by default. So regardless of how you feel, or anyone else feels, he will always hold more authority and a more accurate perspective on what did or didn't happen.

Your lack of respect holds no argument, it's subjective and entirely personal.

 

[Uchiha]

Regardless of the fact that Akira Toriyama likely did forget his Manga a few years ago, he has recently covered his ass by proof-reading the entire Japanese Manga. Because Herms is unable to clarify certain aspects of the Manga in his translations, it makes Akira Toriyama's interpretation more accurate by default. So regardless of how you feel, or anyone else feels, he will always hold more authority and a more accurate perspective on what did or didn't happen.

"by default" - completely baseless. He won't hold any overriding authority. Just saying it over and over again won't make it true. If AT says Goku's hair was blue in the original manga I'm just gonna call him an old man who can forget. While I respect his opinion more than the average reader, I also recognize that he can forget. If I point it out to him I'd say he's more likely to agree than be arrogant.

Your lack of respect holds no argument, it's subjective and entirely personal.

This doesn't make any sense considering you were the one to bring up my lack of respect in the first place as an argument. I'm just saying I don't care if I don't respect him. It doesn't change my overall point of him being fallible. Someone who is reading the manga in front of them is going to get more right (most likely with him going, "haha, yeah I forgot" rather than "you miserable peasant, I never forget") on the objective facts than someone who while wrote the manga, only reread the Japanese manga once.

 

[kriss-]

I do not see any point in your first paragraph. Herms can be fallible in certain areas within his translations whereas Akira Toriyama is a fluent Japanese speaker and would know exactly what actually occurred, having previously wrote the story. This makes his interpretation more accurate then you, and the entire Dragonball community combined -because they run into certain areas where there is currently no right or wrong answer, at least as far as facts are concerned.

His interpretation is the official source whereas yours should at best, be considered a secondary source since it's based off translations that may be fallible in various areas.

 

[SSJ2]

What does him being a native Japanese speaker have to do with anything? It doesn't make him have perfect memory of his own work, even if he reread it.