Tsuru-sen'nin vs Goku (Initial) & Yamcha & Kuririn (22nd Tenkaichi-Budokai)

[SIAD]

@2kewl4u

Where would you have Goku (little more serious against Kuririn)?

I'm not sure what you mean now. Do you mean what @SIAD was saying, or something-else?

Goku has those states in the TB22:
Goku (Initial / Vs Chapa), Goku (Vs Krilin at first), Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious") Goku (level Party), Goku (FP).

Here I will give all the explanations:

Describe the difference between Goku (TB22) on Goku (Baba):

Roshi and Yamcha who witnessed how powerful it was Goku (Vs Son Gohan), but knowing that within those three years had progressed a good deal, plus he grew in stature, but still believed that against the King Chapa had no many possibilities. Therefore: King Chapa (TB22)> = Goku (initial estimate) >> Goku (tournament Baba).

Goku then proved to be much stronger than expected, easily defeating King Chapa, therefore: Goku (Cancelled against King Chapa) >> Rey Chapa (TB22) >> Goku (tournament Baba).

For the reasons shall now, Krillin / Yamcha (TB22) are slightly stronger than Goku (Vs Chapa).

Krillin does not seem to be nervous of the power of Goku, until the latter said he did not fight with all his might against the King Chapa, but had killed him. Therefore: Goku (Estimated Krilin)> / >> Goku (Vs Chapa).

Yamcha wanted may not stand against Goku, or YACKIE Chun, but Yamcha and Goku knew not fight seriously against King Chapa.

Also at the beginning of the battle between Tenshinhan vs Yamcha, Krillin looked more scared than the fight between Goku vs King Chapa. Yamcha> = Goku (Vs Chapa).

Before you start fighting Goku vs. Krillin, the latter tells Goku to fight with all his strength, knowing that Goku was> / >> Goku (Vs Chapa) and still Krilin thought I had some chances to win. It may be thanks to his tricks, but if Krillin was much lower than Goku, then his tricks would not be enough to defeat Goku.

When you start the fight between Goku vs. Krillin, the latter tells Goku with some astonishment "You're very Veils" I personally believe that the strength correlates with the speed, unless proven otherwise (for example Goku Weighted vs Tenshinhan). Therefore: Goku (Vs Krilin to top)> = Krilin (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa).

Later Goku says will fight more seriously, from that moment begins to beat for a relatively comfortable Krillin difference. Then Roshi says astonished "How powerful is to become Goku," Krillin rivaled even so this Goku.

Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious")> Goku (Vs Krilin to top)> = Krilin (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa).

Anyway I have a very small advantage of Krilin (TB22) on Goku (Vs Chapa).

Therefore: Goku (Vs Krilin End) >>> Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious")> Goku (Vs Krilin to top)> = Krilin / Yamcha (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa) >> Rey Chapa ( TB22) >> Goku (Tournament Baba).

In the end, Goku initially use the same power he had used against Krillin at the end, but still, got a beating from Tenshinhan, when use all its power. So Goku decides to use all his power and that it recognizes that it is much higher still. Then it shows Goku (FP)> = Tenshinhan (FP) >>> Goku (Vs Krilin End / Vs Tenshinhan to top).

Thus:

Goku (TB22)> = Tenshinhan (TB22) >>> Goku (Vs Krilin End) >>> Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious")> Goku (Vs Krilin to top)> = Krilin / Yamcha (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa) >> Rey Chapa (TB22) >> Goku (Tournament Baba).

By the way, as mentioned, Tsuru was surpassed for the first time by Tenshinhan ("more serious" against Roshi) and Roshi ("more serious" against Tenshinhan). Therefore I have:

Tenshinhan ("more serious" against Roshi) = Roshi ("more serious" against Tenshinhan)> Master Tsuru (TB22 / TB23)> Tenshinhan (initially against Roshi) = Tenshinhan (At the end against Yamcha)> = Roshi (initially against Tenshinhan).

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kuririn seemed quite astonished when Goku defeated Chapa-o so easily.

 

[SIAD]

This is Goku (Vs King Chapa) or Goku (Vs Krilin at first) or Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious")?

  In the first 2 cases Tsuru win with little difficulty, if it is the third case, then wins Tsuru after a good fight.

  To my Goku (Initial TB22) it is = Goku (Cancelled against King Chapa) and the latter is slightly less than Krillin and Yamcha (TB22).

But why would it be harder? If the third scenario (in your opinion), then Goku wouldn't be too different from Yamcha or Kuririn and they are also in the first two scenarios (in your opinion), unless you think adding a third character from their tier would make the fight harder?

The truth is my own guess, since like Goku ("most serious against Krillin") is a little stronger than Krillin and Yamcha), also if we have the Kamehameha Goku and Yamcha, could complicate Tsuru, but still, Tsuru wins due to its great advantage of.

 

[SIAD]

Kuririn seemed quite astonished when Goku defeated Chapa-o so easily.

But Krillin seemed to be even more surprised at the initial battle between Tenshinhan vs Yamcha.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kuririn seemed quite astonished when Goku defeated Chapa-o so easily.

But Krillin seemed to be even more surprised at the initial battle between Tenshinhan vs Yamcha.

He was, but isn't it possible because that was an even fight that was able to show-case their abilities, where-as the other was an easy win for Goku?

About more serious Goku, do you think his level of power is actually higher or just his effort-level?

 

[SIAD]

Kuririn seemed quite astonished when Goku defeated Chapa-o so easily.

But Krillin seemed to be even more surprised at the initial battle between Tenshinhan vs Yamcha.

He was, but isn't it possible because that was an even fight that was able to show-case their abilities, where-as the other was an easy win for Goku?

About more serious Goku, do you think his level of power is actually higher or just his effort-level?

Possibly the level of effort perhaps good throughout the tournament increased their level of effort.

  Krilin maybe got nervous when he saw Goku easily defeating King Chapa, but then he said confidently, "It is not good to fight with everything from the beginning" (Krilin hoping that was all the power of Goku), but Goku he said "Do not use all my power, but he had killed the King Chapa" and recently there Krillin got nervous.

  Later, Krillin had some small chances of defeating a much stronger than Goku defeated Chapa, so Krillin and Yamcha I have (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa).

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But Krillin seemed to be even more surprised at the initial battle between Tenshinhan vs Yamcha.

He was, but isn't it possible because that was an even fight that was able to show-case their abilities, where-as the other was an easy win for Goku?

About more serious Goku, do you think his level of power is actually higher or just his effort-level?

Possibly the level of effort perhaps good throughout the tournament increased their level of effort.

  Krilin maybe got nervous when he saw Goku easily defeating King Chapa, but then he said confidently, "It is not good to fight with everything from the beginning" (Krilin hoping that was all the power of Goku), but Goku he said "Do not use all my power, but he had killed the King Chapa" and recently there Krillin got nervous.

  Later, Krillin had some small chances of defeating a much stronger than Goku defeated Chapa, so Krillin and Yamcha I have (TB22)> Goku (Vs Chapa).

He was nervous and then told him it's not good to use full-power from the start. I don't know what to think.

 

[SIAD]

But just it seemed a bit nervous. Goku also hinted that he was much stronger than against Chapa, if Krillin (TB22) was equal to Goku (Initial), then I do not think Krilin think that has any chance against.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But just it seemed a bit nervous. Goku also hinted that he was much stronger than against Chapa, if Krillin (TB22) was equal to Goku (Initial), then I do not think Krilin think that has any chance against.

True. I don't know what to say.

 

[ahill1]

@2kewl4u

Yeah, I mean when Goku said he would increase his effort against Kuririn, when the latter proved to be a tough battle to his initial power. Goku didn't specified he'd increase his effort in Viz, but he did according to the Japanese manga. Roshi even said this:


Chapter: 126, P5.2
Context: as Goku and Kuririn continue to fight
Kame-sennin: “Hoh…Goku plans to exhibit his true worth little by little…Let’s see, let’s see…”


And later Roshi was impressed with Goku's power:


Chapter: 126, P11.3-4
Kuririn: “He’s not merely strong! I’ve got no chance of winning if I fight him head-on…”
Kame-sennin: “Un-unbelievable…Kuririn’s prowess has developed to a superhuman level, but even so…”


Here are the pages:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

How strong do you think this Goku is? At Tsuru's sennin level?

 

[ahill1]

@SIAD - very, very good anylisis.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

@2kewl4u

Yeah, I mean when Goku said he would increase his effort against Kuririn, when the latter proved to be a tough battle to his initial power. Goku didn't specified he'd increase his effort in Viz, but he did according to the Japanese manga. Roshi even said this:


Chapter: 126, P5.2
Context: as Goku and Kuririn continue to fight
Kame-sennin: “Hoh…Goku plans to exhibit his true worth little by little…Let’s see, let’s see…”


And later Roshi was impressed with Goku's power:


Chapter: 126, P11.3-4
Kuririn: “He’s not merely strong! I’ve got no chance of winning if I fight him head-on…”
Kame-sennin: “Un-unbelievable…Kuririn’s prowess has developed to a superhuman level, but even so…”


Here are the pages:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

How strong do you think this Goku is? At Tsuru's sennin level?

Honestly, I can't look at the images now and can't remember the fight to that point? So I can't really answer.

 

[ahill1]

I think this Goku being at Tsuru sennin level should be good, but Tsuru should be able to defeat Yamcha as easily as Tenshinhan did and yet this Goku couldn't one-shot Kuririn. I feel Tenshinhan was more imposing over Yamcha than Goku was over Kuririn.

 

[SIAD]

Is that after all that, Goku end uses his level of play, the latter far exceeds the Goku (Vs Krilin "more serious"), with that Goku greatly exceeds Krillin and reaches such a level to overcome even Roshi ( FP).

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I think this Goku being at Tsuru sennin level should be good, but Tsuru should be able to defeat Yamcha as easily as Tenshinhan did and yet this Goku couldn't one-shot Kuririn. I feel Tenshinhan was more imposing over Yamcha than Goku was over Kuririn.

Maybe Goku was holding-back, since he obviously didn't want to knock him out or kill him.

 

[ahill1]

I think this Goku being at Tsuru sennin level should be good, but Tsuru should be able to defeat Yamcha as easily as Tenshinhan did and yet this Goku couldn't one-shot Kuririn. I feel Tenshinhan was more imposing over Yamcha than Goku was over Kuririn.

Maybe Goku was holding-back, since he obviously didn't want to knock him out or kill him.

He was holding back, of course. He only used his full power against Tenshinhan.

Goku (battle level) >> Goku (full match level) >> Goku (little more serious against Kuririn) >> Goku (initial against Kuririn)

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I think this Goku being at Tsuru sennin level should be good, but Tsuru should be able to defeat Yamcha as easily as Tenshinhan did and yet this Goku couldn't one-shot Kuririn. I feel Tenshinhan was more imposing over Yamcha than Goku was over Kuririn.

Maybe Goku was holding-back, since he obviously didn't want to knock him out or kill him.

He was holding back, of course. He only used his full power against Tenshinhan.

Goku (battle level) >> Goku (full match level) >> Goku (little more serious against Kuririn) >> Goku (initial against Kuririn)

Well, I meant holding-back in the sense that his speed and power surpassed Kuririn by a-lot and he knows it, but he's pulling his punches so that he doesn't knock him out, even if he could.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

@ahill1 It actually was stated that Tenshinhan would fight more seriously after Roshi did.

Chapter: 124, P2.1-2
Tenshinhan: “Alright, I’ll fight you seriously just a little bit…!”
Kame-sennin: “Wha!? Are you saying you weren’t [fighting] seriously before?”

 

[Fantastische Hure]

@ahill1 It actually was stated that Tenshinhan would fight more seriously after Roshi did.

Chapter: 124, P2.1-2
Tenshinhan: “Alright, I’ll fight you seriously just a little bit…!”
Kame-sennin: “Wha!? Are you saying you weren’t [fighting] seriously before?”

You always have the answers.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Some more evidence in favor of Tsuru-sennin; when Chaozu refused to paralyze Tenshinhan, Tsuru-sennin lifted Chaozu up and looked as if he was going to kill him in a single blow.