Vegeta had learnt Kaioken after fighting Goku?

Hector

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
2,391
Remember when Vegeta learnt how to sense chi just by watching the earthlings do it? What if, during his first visit to Earth, he had also learnt Kaioken in the same manner?
Rule: Vegeta realizes that only after leaving Earth, so it does not affect his fight with Goku.
 

Warmmedown

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
11,978
Age
31
His KKx2 would be around 40,000-45,000. Beats the fuck out of Zarbon easily with x2, so doesn't get any zenkai from that. The timeline for the Ginyu Force arriving won't change much, if at all (Freeza might call them in a little earlier if Zarbon is killed by Vegeta in their first fight. If they are called in early, Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin all die, due to the below).

There's a higher chance of Krillin or Gohan being killed by Vegeta, because he's more likely to catch up to them while they're doing something that makes him angry. For example, Vegeta caught up to Krillin on the way to Guru's house. The reason he doesn't hurt Krillin is because he senses something at Guru's, but maybe if he'd caught up to Krillin further away from Guru's, he would have killed Krillin first. Possibly not though.

Vegeta would still want to team up against the Ginyu Force, because a x2 won't be enough to take them on and even x3 won't be enough against Ginyu (how much knowledge he has of their power is unclear. All we know is that he's aware they're much stronger than Vegeta was at the time).

Recoome fights Vegeta KKx2, maybe gets himself killed in the end, if Jeice and Butta stay out of the way. If Vegeta doesn't allow Krillin and Gohan to help him, he might take too long and give away that he's strong enough to beat Recoome, at which point Jeice and Butta get involved and wipe the floor with them.

Goku arrives and beats Recoome (if he's still there), Jeice and Butta. Vegeta and Gohan may or may not end up with a zenkai. If Goku doesn't arrive, Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin probably die.

Vegeta is shocked by how powerful Goku is. He knows he can't beat him even at KKx3 (which I doubt he's capable of anyway, with so little training) and he knows to be beat Ginyu and Freeza he'll be better off with Goku's help.

If Vegeta has no zenkai, I'm not sure if it'll change his behaviour enough to avoid meeting Freeza until Goku is healed. If not, Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan die unless Gohan has a rage boost than allows them all to survive for long enough. Otherwise, Goku comes and gets killed in the end too, probably. Even going SSJ might not be enough.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
As said above, Vegeta would easily kill Zarbon. Because he doesn't get taken for interrogation though, that means Gohan never gets in the position to steal the four star ball due to Vegeta watching over it. Instead, he retreats and gets his potential unlocked by the Grand Elder without trouble, with there being no conflicts until the Ginyu Tokusentai arrive. They immediately track down Vegeta when searching for the largest Ki. Once Ginyu leaves, he'd use Kaioken x3-4 to easily kill the rest. Goku would then arrive and get to where Gohan and Kuririn were as well as get his potential unlocked, bringing him up to his Zenkai level. Goku would mention Kaio telling him to leave the planet, though the idea of Freeza gaining immortality as well as his newfound power would have him stay and defend the Grand Elder. Meanwhile, Ginyu tracks down Vegeta and kills him. When Freeza arrives at the Grand Elder's house, Goku stays to face him whereas Gohan and Kuririn would go to try and get the Dragon Balls. Not in a position to mess around, Goku would kill Freeza before he could get to his true form. Gohan and Kuririn would likely still have not gotten to the point where they can fight Ginyu, though either Goku would stop him or the Ginyu-Goku events would go as in canon with Nail replacing Vegeta. Piccolo, Chaozu and Yamcha are revived, with the Earth Dragon Balls reviving all of Freeza's victims. This would include Vegeta, however, with Goku offering him the ultimatum of come with them to Earth or be destroyed. Vegeta reluctantly goes with them.
With Goku remaining far above him and the power creep of #17 and #18, Kaioken Vegeta doesn't change anything thereafter, apart from possibly having to work together to overcome Cold when he comes for revenge (assuming he doesn't just blow up Earth from space). If he and Bulma still hooked up. Trunks teaches Goku how to become a Super Saiyan and events go as in canon until the Cell Games, where the lack of Shunkan Ido means Cell wins by self-destructing.
 

Hector

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
2,391
Captain Cadaver said:
As said above, Vegeta would easily kill Zarbon. Because he doesn't get taken for interrogation though, that means Gohan never gets in the position to steal the four star ball due to Vegeta watching over it. Instead, he retreats and gets his potential unlocked by the Grand Elder without trouble, with there being no conflicts until the Ginyu Tokusentai arrive. They immediately track down Vegeta when searching for the largest Ki. Once Ginyu leaves, he'd use Kaioken x3-4 to easily kill the rest. Goku would then arrive and get to where Gohan and Kuririn were as well as get his potential unlocked, bringing him up to his Zenkai level. Goku would mention Kaio telling him to leave the planet, though the idea of Freeza gaining immortality as well as his newfound power would have him stay and defend the Grand Elder. Meanwhile, Ginyu tracks down Vegeta and kills him. When Freeza arrives at the Grand Elder's house, Goku stays to face him whereas Gohan and Kuririn would go to try and get the Dragon Balls. Not in a position to mess around, Goku would kill Freeza before he could get to his true form. Gohan and Kuririn would likely still have not gotten to the point where they can fight Ginyu, though either Goku would stop him or the Ginyu-Goku events would go as in canon with Nail replacing Vegeta. Piccolo, Chaozu and Yamcha are revived, with the Earth Dragon Balls reviving all of Freeza's victims. This would include Vegeta, however, with Goku offering him the ultimatum of come with them to Earth or be destroyed. Vegeta reluctantly goes with them.
With Goku remaining far above him and the power creep of #17 and #18, Kaioken Vegeta doesn't change anything thereafter, apart from possibly having to work together to overcome Cold when he comes for revenge (assuming he doesn't just blow up Earth from space). If he and Bulma still hooked up. Trunks teaches Goku how to become a Super Saiyan and events go as in canon until the Cell Games, where the lack of Shunkan Ido means Cell wins by self-destructing.

I think that 24k Vegeta would be able to handle kaioken at least to 5fold, so he would stand a chance against Ginyu.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
If that's what you believe, then okay, but an assumption when considering Vegeta would only have basic experience with the technique and we have no baseline on if a greater battle power would allow him to handle such a level despite that, so I'm going to keep 3-4x as his limit on Namek.
 

Warmmedown

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
11,978
Age
31
Goku trained Kaioken for 30 days and struggled significantly with KKx3. Vegeta isn't going to learn x5, while recovering from his battle on Earth and then going straight to Namek after healing. Sure, Goku might not have had someone to watch using kaioken (King Kai never mastered it, although it's still possible he could do it to some extent), but once Goku learnt it, the pace at which he improved upon it should be impossible for Vegeta to surpass, considering Vegeta has never been shown to learn techniques quicker than Goku.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,226
Age
28
Despite being 24k in battle strength when he arrived on Namek, I can't see Vegeta being able to manage much more than Kaioken x3 by merely learning it on his own. Goku made it evident that Kaioken required extreme precision to execute and could have catastrophic consequences if there was the slightest slip-up. Considering the founder of the technique wasn't even able to use it, that implies it isn't a technique that can simply be picked up like sensing ki. For the sake of this thread I'll consider x3 to be his maximum.

Vegeta one shots Cui, Dodoria and Zarbon - meaning he never gets a Zenkai after that battle. Considering there were no scouters on Namek, the Ginyu Force would be under the assumption that 24k was Vegeta's maximum power. Upon arrival, Ginyu would have still left to take the Dragon Balls to Freeza, leaving his force to get raped by Vegeta. Gohan and Krillin never have to get involved in the fight. Assuming he is able to kill them off before Goku's arrival, he would rush over to Ginyu to steal the Dragon Balls before Goku landed. It's unclear if Vegeta is aware of Ginyu's full power, and we know initial Ginyu on Namek was equal to > 60k Goku. Vegeta knowing that his own max is 72k might recklessly attack Ginyu only to be killed when Ginyu powers up to his maximum.
 

Warmmedown

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
11,978
Age
31
I think if Vegeta tried to take on the Ginyu force on his own he would almost certainly need x3KK to beat Recoome, Burta and Jeice. After using KKx3 he would be incredibly fatigued, no? It's doubtful he would choose to risk running into Ginyu straight after that. Do you agree and if so how do you think he might handle the situation?
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,226
Age
28
I’m operating under the assumption that he’d have decent control over x3. He is 3x stronger than Saiyan arc Goku after all.
 

theallpowerfulpuipui

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2016
Messages
22,833
Vegeta probably annhilates everyone but Frieza. Since he already has 24k after zenkai he probably challenges Frieza to transform... :rape1
 

Latest profile posts

Listening to JFK talk about President Diem in South Vietnam two months before authorising his assassination is pretty insane.
Punpun is a bitch and is for bitches
Tell your friend to talk to someone he trusts, and if that does not work, seeing the "professional" is better than dying.
Top