Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga) vs Future Trunks SSJ (Androids saga) gap

[ahill1]

How much stronger is Vegeta than Future Trunks in the Androids saga in your opinion?

 

[Papasmurf]

1.2x max.

 

[ahill1]

1.2x max.

What do you think of Tenshinhan's comment? Could be used to prove they were on the same level?

 

[Papasmurf]

Not just that, but the fact that Trunks caught up with Vegeta whereas fighters with a 1.3x gap have an immense difference in speed a la Kui and Vegeta. Kami also goes as far as to lump the two despite acknowledging Vegeta's superiority, so the gap is obviously nowhere near stomp level.

 

[Victorious]

Tenshinhan even lumps Piccolo with Vegeta in having an incredible power up. I like SSJ Future Trunks 90% of SSJ Vegeta.

 

[ahill1]

Not just that, but the fact that Trunks caught up with Vegeta whereas fighters with a 1.3x gap have an immense difference in speed a la Kui and Vegeta. Kami also goes as far as to lump the two despite acknowledging Vegeta's superiority, so the gap is obviously nowhere near stomp level.

Well, speed doesn't always correlate with power, right?

I don't think Kami saying Vegeta is "even stronger than Trunks" means they were on the same range of power. The "even stronger was used many times and when the stronger fighter had a gread lead over the weaker, like:


Chapter: 260 (DBZ 66), P11.2
Kuririn: “It seems like Vegeta’s gotten even stronger… And I felt an even more powerful ki from that Freeza whoever-he-is… I don’t know what kind of training Goku’s doing…but I’ve got a feeling it won’t be enough…”

And Vegeta was obviously much stronger (30k vs 18k);


Difference between Vegeta and 1st form Freeza


Kuririn: "...And I felt an even more powerful ki from that Freeza whoever-he-is…"


Difference between Ginyu's estimate for suppressed Goku (60k) and his estimate full power (85k)


Chapter: 284 (DBZ 90), P13.4
Context: after Goku lets Goku go
Ginyu: “You’re hiding even greater power! Did you really think that I wouldn’t notice…?!"


Difference between Cell and Vegeta as the latter is curb-stomping the former


Chapter: 378 (DBZ 184), P5.4-5
Kuririn: “I get it!!! Th-this stupendously gigantic ki is Vegeta…!!! It’s even greater than Ce-Cell’s absurdly large ki…!”

 

[Papasmurf]

True, but if we go that route Vegeta lumps himself and Goku in the Boo arc saying we've both gotten stronger than Gohan despite still acknowledging he'd get stomped by Goku. The evidence for closeness is stronger here due to Vegeta not being much faster than Trunks.

 

[ahill1]

Tenshinhan even lumps Piccolo with Vegeta in having an incredible power up. I like SSJ Future Trunks 90% of SSJ Vegeta.

Tenshinhan's quote is odd though. According to that quote, Goku is even stronger than Vegeta.

 

[Papasmurf]

Not just that, but the fact that Trunks caught up with Vegeta whereas fighters with a 1.3x gap have an immense difference in speed a la Kui and Vegeta. Kami also goes as far as to lump the two despite acknowledging Vegeta's superiority, so the gap is obviously nowhere near stomp level.

Well, speed doesn't always correlate with power, right?

Not always, but there's only very few cases where the weaker fighter was faster like Ginyu vs. Goku. Toriyama goes as far as to state Gohan is extremely fast in both the Cell arc and the Boo arc, but never does so for Trunks, so I doubt there's some disproportionate speed boost for him.

Tenshinhan even lumps Piccolo with Vegeta in having an incredible power up. I like SSJ Future Trunks 90% of SSJ Vegeta.

Tenshinhan's quote is odd though. According to that quote, Goku is even stronger than Vegeta.

Yeah, Tenshinhan isn't credible. He didn't even notice that Goku was sick, whereas Piccolo (who did) stated twice that Vegeta might be stronger than Goku.

 

[ahill1]

I could accept Tenshinhan's quote just well, but according to his quote, Goku is stronger than Vegeta.

 

[Victorious]

I think Trunks should be marginally closer to Vegeta, than Piccolo is to Trunks. But i think Piccolo is significantly closer to Vegeta than Vegeta is to Kamiccolo. No one would put Vegeta in the same category as Kamiccolo. As far as Vegeta vs Trunks, Vegeta is definitely stronger not to mention more skilled...but the gap between the two is exaggerated by most because Trunks was one shotted by a noticeabley stronger Android. People seem to forget that. I think #17 could one or two shot Vegeta as well.

 

[Victorious]

Tenshinhan even lumps Piccolo with Vegeta in having an incredible power up. I like SSJ Future Trunks 90% of SSJ Vegeta.

Tenshinhan's quote is odd though. According to that quote, Goku is even stronger than Vegeta.

How is Goku stronger than Vegeta according to that quote?

 

[Papasmurf]

Tenshinhan says something like "as strong as Goku is, he shouldn't be too different from Trunks or Vegeta! We can't win... even with Goku" which looks like he considers Goku strong, but not so much stronger than Veggie and Trunks

 

[ahill1]

Yea, Tenshinhan's quote is:


Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.3-4
Context: talking about how Trunks and co. lost to the androids
Tenshinhan: “[Trunks] is the man who took down Freeza…And he was helpless before these androids…I’ll be frank…! No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…He definitely can’t win…! Not even Goku…”

"Not even Goku"... with that nonsense it's difficult to use Tenshinhan's statement as face value, like in the situation with Goku SSJ Yardrat vs Sick Goku, where he acted like is the first time he saw a SSJ Goku,

 

[Victorious]

Tenshinhan says something like "as strong as Goku is, he shouldn't be too different from Trunks or Vegeta! We can't win... even with Goku" which looks like he considers Goku strong, but not so much stronger than Veggie and Trunks

Ohh i was thinking of Ten's earlier quote by the canyon when Piccolo was wrecking Gero. As far as the qoute you paste here, nothing is wrong with it. Ten doesnt even know Goku's true power or his current ceiling. Only Piccolo and Gohan do. So this does nothing to discredit Vegeta > FP Goku. Which Piccolo already confirmed.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, Tenshinhan's judgment is fallible at best. Even Goku acknowledges that any foe Vegeta can't beat, he can't beat by extension.

 

[Victorious]

Ten's quote is little more than "sure Goku is an SSJ and has a history of being awesome, but we already have two SSJs and they got wrecked, odds are Goku isnt much different than them and he'll get wrecked too".

 

[ahill1]

Tenshinhan says something like "as strong as Goku is, he shouldn't be too different from Trunks or Vegeta! We can't win... even with Goku" which looks like he considers Goku strong, but not so much stronger than Veggie and Trunks

Ohh i was thinking of Ten's earlier quote by the canyon when Piccolo was wrecking Gero. As far as the qoute you paste here, nothing is wrong with it. Ten doesnt even know Goku's true power or his current ceiling. Only Piccolo and Gohan do. So this does nothing to discredit Vegeta > FP Goku. Which Piccolo already confirmed.

I somehow read your comment as "Tenshinhan lumped Trunks and Vegeta together" lol.

But Piccolo said in front of Tenshinhan that Vegeta might be even stronger than Goku and Tenshinhan saw it. But later, Tenshinhan still thinks Goku is stronger than Vegeta. This could invalidate Trunks being lumped together with Vegeta and Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, it's just like #18 assuming Goku was >> Vegeta and being disappointed when she was told he wasn't.

 

[Victorious]

Tenshinhan says something like "as strong as Goku is, he shouldn't be too different from Trunks or Vegeta! We can't win... even with Goku" which looks like he considers Goku strong, but not so much stronger than Veggie and Trunks

Ohh i was thinking of Ten's earlier quote by the canyon when Piccolo was wrecking Gero. As far as the qoute you paste here, nothing is wrong with it. Ten doesnt even know Goku's true power or his current ceiling. Only Piccolo and Gohan do. So this does nothing to discredit Vegeta > FP Goku. Which Piccolo already confirmed.

I somehow read your comment as "Tenshinhan lumped Trunks and Vegeta together" lol.

But Piccolo said in front of Tenshinhan that Vegeta might be even stronger than Goku and Tenshinhan saw it. But later, Tenshinhan still thinks Goku is stronger than Vegeta. This could invalidate Trunks being lumped together with Vegeta and Goku.

I disagree with Ten thinking Goku is stronger than Vegeta. I think Ten is agnostic .The qoute you pasted pretty much shows Ten doesnt know exactly how strong Goku is. He said "No matter how strong he may be". All Ten's qoute really means is he doesnt know how strong Goku is, but he's positive it's not going to be a power much different than Vegeta or Trunks. Which means they're fucked. Ten is uncertain of Goku's precise power at the moment, but is positive of his potential limit or range.