Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga) vs Future Trunks SSJ (Androids saga) gap

[Evil Vegeta]

I never got that impression from Tien's quote.

Ten said "not even Goku".

That sounds more like a character quote than a power one. We already know he holds Goku in high regard as a fighter. Besides that, Tien just said Goku "definitely can't win", so...

Tien's entire quote is based on a hypothetical Goku at full-power, which he is totally unaware about. He's just assuming that Goku won't be able to do anything that Vegeta or Trunks can't do.

 

[ahill1]

Tenshinhan: “No matter how strong Goku may be, he shouldn’t be that different from Trunks or Vegeta…He definitely can’t win…! Not even Goku…”

How is this not a power statement?

While I agree this does imply the three Saiyans are on the same range of power, this comment is a bit odd, because it seems Ten is considering Goku to be stronger than Vegeta.

Tenshinhan doesn't know Goku's full power as he never saw it. Vegeta's quote about himself being the strongest actually says he "should be stronger than Goku now", so it's not even 100%.

But Piccolo said Vegeta might be stronger than Goku, and Tenshinhan heard it.

 

[SSJ2]

That's why he's speculating about Goku's true power and how high it could potentially become. However he doesn't think it would become as different as the Androids were.

Vegeta is a cocky, arrogant head who can't really ever be trusted. On Namek, while fighting Jeice & Ginyu, he believed himself to be stronger than Goku was when he arrived on Namek. Despite Goku being capable of going up to 900,000. This occurred when he falsely believed himself to be a Super Saiyan, or at least nearing it, and when he actually becomes one, you're going to trust his words?

Pardon me, but he also doesn't know how strong a healthy Goku would be.

Why not trust him? Others back him up in many instances. Yes, he also didn't know that Goku had Kaioken x10, so that isn't valid. Goku's maximum in Vegeta's mind should have been 360,000 as he only knew Goku had Kaioken up to x4.

 

[SSJ2]

While I agree this does imply the three Saiyans are on the same range of power, this comment is a bit odd, because it seems Ten is considering Goku to be stronger than Vegeta.

Tenshinhan doesn't know Goku's full power as he never saw it. Vegeta's quote about himself being the strongest actually says he "should be stronger than Goku now", so it's not even 100%.

But Piccolo said Vegeta might be stronger than Goku, and Tenshinhan heard it.

might

 

[ahill1]

I never got that impression from Tien's quote.

Ten said "not even Goku".

That sounds more like a character quote than a power one. We already know he holds Goku in high regard as a fighter. Besides that, Tien just said Goku "definitely can't win", so...

Tien's entire quote is based on a hypothetical Goku at full-power, which he is totally unaware about. He's just assuming that Goku won't be able to do anything that Vegeta or Trunks can't do.

But he heard Piccolo saying Vegeta might be stronger than Goku.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Tien heard him say that and this:

Piccolo: “…But…It seems that Vegeta really has obtained power surpassing Goku now that he’s become a Super Saiyan…He just might be able to take care of them like he says…”

This is why he's assuming Goku's help wouldn't really make a difference. There's also Kami who states Vegeta>Trunks, but also says a healed Goku wouldn't really change anything. I think the overall point is the Super Saiyans are in the same realm of power.

 

[SSJ2]

Ten said "not even Goku".

That sounds more like a character quote than a power one. We already know he holds Goku in high regard as a fighter. Besides that, Tien just said Goku "definitely can't win", so...

Tien's entire quote is based on a hypothetical Goku at full-power, which he is totally unaware about. He's just assuming that Goku won't be able to do anything that Vegeta or Trunks can't do.

But he heard Piccolo saying Vegeta might be stronger than Goku.

Piccolo's statement doesn't completely confirm that Vegeta is stronger. Tenshinhan can't base his estimations off of a "might".

 

[ahill1]

Tien heard him say that and this:

Piccolo: “…But…It seems that Vegeta really has obtained power surpassing Goku now that he’s become a Super Saiyan…He just might be able to take care of them like he says…”

This is why he's assuming Goku's help wouldn't really make a difference. There's also Kami who states Vegeta>Trunks, but also says a healed Goku wouldn't really change anything. I think the overall point is the Super Saiyans are in the same realm of power.

But he said "not even Goku", which implied he had Goku in a high regard than Vegeta.

 

[SSJ2]

Because Goku is always the one who saves the day. It's out of respect.

 

[ahill1]

Yea, I see. But I already used this quote in debate to prove Vegeta and Trunks are on the same realm of power, but this was not enough to prove because they said Tenshinhan treats Goku as being stronger than Vegeta, therefore he doesn't know nothing.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't see that. I see it more like "Goku has been the strongest for the last 20 years, and even he can't be of use here".

 

[ahill1]

Yea... based on this comment and on that scene where Vegeta SSJ could not out get off from his son and even called him annoying, I think Vegeta and Trunks are fairly close in power. Something like this:

Vegeta 100
Goku 95
Trunks 88

 

[SSJ2]

I think it's even closer.

Vegeta: 100
Goku: 96
Trunks: 90

Goku and Vegeta are essentially the same, with Vegeta himself not being completely sure if he'd surpassed Goku, and we know that Trunks isn't all too different from them.

 

[ahill1]

That's cool. Precisely for this reason, I think Vegeta's comment of Trunks not being of any use against 18 is BS, since he knew Trunks was on his level and he believed himself to be stronger than #18. By this logic, Trunks would obviously be of use against 18.

 

[SSJ2]

It's even backed up by 17, so yeah, he would be of use.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

How Trunks gained power from being weaker than Yadrat Goku to being a league of SSJ tier from Android arc?

 

[SSJ2]

He trained in the Future.

 

[ahill1]

How Trunks gained power from being weaker than Yadrat Goku to being a league of SSJ tier from Android arc?

Well, I think he trained in his time too. I don't know exactly how much time the machine take to build up enough energy though.

But it still is not that impressive, since Future Trunks SSJ went from weaker than base Gohan (1 arm) to being stronger than his SSJ in 3 years.

 

[SSJ2]

SEG indicates that even training alone can yield some decent gains.

 

[Tapion]

Tien's quote don't have to necessarily imply that Goku is the superior fighter. It just have to mean that Goku was the strongest Z Fighter since Vegeta, at least in my opinion, wasn't a '"Z Fighter" yet. I don't think that everyone accepted Vegeta(not completely, at least) as a part of the team..