Vegeta vs Jeice

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ok so I’m reading the manga to find some clues. Ahill broke this down on Neo a while ago, but I want to take a step further.

First off, Vegeta says his stamina is restored. So the nap had nothing to do his power up indeed.

 

[FeatsofPower]

First off, Vegeta says his stamina is restored. So the nap had nothing to do his power up indeed.

Yup.

The nap is nothing. That's a 2000's era level theory. The continuous zenkai is what's actually happening.

The only thing that has never really made sense was putting him at 250k, I remember CC and me having a debate about this whole issue. I didn't have the kind of evidence I needed to really push the theory through, but now with Super it looks even more likely.

Goku was a unique circumstance, Ginyu is used to changing with someone and accessing their full strength, so Ginyu is assuming he can access Vegeta's true power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah I dug that one up from the 2000s thinking we could do something with it lol.

Vegeta flat out says his power is rising, but he also tells Freeza the same thing so I thought it might not be literal. But it’s the perfect explanation for why Vegeta went from “oh no Goku is here” to “I’m the next Super Saiyan, bitch”. I don’t see Vegeta raving like that if he’s under 100k.

Initial: 48k
Vs Jeice: 120k (idc about the 250k figure)
Vs Freeza: 480k

Does he know about 180k Goku?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Does he know about 180k Goku?

That’s the thing he fears 66k Goku he doesn’t know about anything else

 

[Yoshi]

I actually believe Vegeta to be 500,000 or so against Jheese. He was being outclassed by Vegeta and even he couldn’t believe what his scouter was telling him. Plus, I think that Vegeta getting x5 more powerful from sleeping is baloney.

 

[Kyo]

But it’s the perfect explanation for why Vegeta went from “oh no Goku is here” to “I’m the next Super Saiyan, bitch”. I don’t see Vegeta raving like that if he’s under 100k.

The main reason he thinks that is because Goku's soft and he's ruthless.

 

[ahill1]

Ginyu wasn’t able to utilize Goku’s full power, but with Vegeta he probably could.

But then he'd treat that as a possibility, not as a sure thing. Ginyu knows Vegeta is a Saiyan like Goku, so since that may be the first time he had tried that on a Saiyans, I don't know why he'd be so sure the tides would turn unless Vegeta has shown bigger power. Goku also states if Ginyu takes Vegeta's body, it'll be all over. Goku has had only the experience that he didn't adapt to Ginyu's body the same way Ginyu didn't adapt to his body. I don't know why he'd be so sure that with Vegeta, he'd be able to access all his power. Goku can't know he was a special case and that with Vegeta, same race as him, it'd give him access to Vegeta's full power. Goku stressed the mind and body aren't the same, he didn't single out himself as an exception. He should expect the same level of difficulty in utilizing Vegeta's power, so the fact he seems sure it'd be over makes it possible Vegeta has shown greater power there than at least his base 90,000 power. It's also worth noting that Ginyu doesn't think of stealing Vegeta's body until he is beaten to a pulp. When he sees Vegeta killed Jheese he's in disbelief but doesn't think in taking his body, which, were him to access his 100%, it'd work the same, since a power >>> Jheese could easily handle Kuririn and Gohan at that moment... The thought just came to him after he felt Vegeta's blows weight when he beated him up.

 

[Kyo]

what are paragraph breaks

 

[ahill1]

It's interesting tho because Vegeta only thinks Goku was no SSJ because he didn't show to be ruthless. Other than that, he believed Goku was the legendary warrior, as did Ginyu, until they saw Goku wasn't ruthless. Vs Jheese, he didn't say he was a SSJ yet, he said he was in the path to become one, while he discared Goku not because of his power, but because of his attitude.

But still, since not even while rivaling 1st form Freeza, Vegeta considers himself a SSJ and only does so after the Zenkai, it seems he just didn't consider the power shown by Goku there (~60,000) as enough to be a SSJ later on. Seems like he chaged his idea on it. It's also weird because he expected Goku to be a SSJ there when he knew Goku was no match for Freeza... And he considered the SSJ to eclipse Freeza. So there seemed to be a flip flop on Vegeta's idea regarding the power needed to be a SSJ. He was likely somewhat caught in the shock by Goku's sudden power and growth, along with his clamness, and then when reaching and surpassing that power he may have seen it still wasn't SSJ like.

 

[ahill1]

what are paragraph breaks

I suck at it. My last answer had one tho

 

[FeatsofPower]

But then he'd treat that as a possibility, not as a sure thing.

He treats Goku’s situation as a one-off.

 

[Dagon]

It's never said senzus get rid of your sleep debt. The nap was a literal power nap. The senzu restored his health but not his sleep debt.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It's never said senzus get rid of your sleep debt. The nap was a literal power nap. The senzu restored his health but not his sleep debt.

Sensus restore your power in full and completely. Naps aren't necessary.

@ahill1

Good points about Goku's perspective about what he assumes Ginyu is thinking. I'll have to think about that.

 

[ahill1]

He treats Goku’s situation as a one-off.

Yeah, but would he know it'd be different with Vegeta? He can't be sure. Has he tried it on a Saiyan before? What if is a thing specific to Saiyans? He should have those thoughts in mind before being totally sure of his victory.

Goku doesn't seem to think this situation wasn't a one off either. He hasn't experience with Ginyu's past attempts. He merely states when the body and mind aren't the same and Ginyu isn't used to it, he wouldn't adspt himself to it. Why does he suddenly consider Vegeta a sure deal Ginyu is going to access all his power? Why does Ginyu not think about stealing Vegeta's body as soon as he saw he killing Jheese if he knew he could access his 100%? Granted that the events were too fast and Vegeta rushed into him, but he could have also easily thought about that on spot since it'd be a simple "oh, Vegeta killed Jheese, unbelievable, but I'll take his body now!". The decision came after being completely beated up. He was shocked Vegeta killed Jheese, but he can't deny what happened there, he saw Vegeta had the power to kill Jheese.

 

[Dagon]

Sensus restore your power in full and completely. Naps aren't necessary.

@ahill1

Good points about Goku's perspective about what he assumes Ginyu is thinking. I'll have to think about that.

They restore physical damage. Gonna need something that says it wipes out sleep debt.

If I'd dis wipe out sleep debt, then Vegeta who had been kept awake worrying about the Ginyu Force would not need a nap after the senzu. He did, there his sleep debt persisted.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Sure but you still have full power. Taking a nap doesn’t 10 fold your power level dudes.

Vegeta is at full power after the sensu. Either way it’s continuous.

 

[Dagon]

Sure but you still have full power. Taking a nap doesn’t 10 fold your power level dudes.

Vegeta is at full power after the sensu. Either way it’s continuous.

Your mind plays a part in power expression. It's not like mech suit that's a distinct entity.

 

[NotTheOnly1ne]

Vegeta > Jheese

That's all we need to know.

Fuckin power level bros. Lol

 

[FeatsofPower]

Your mind plays a part in power expression. It's not like mech suit that's a distinct entity.

Why did he power up so much from when he first received the sensu to when he fought Jeice?

 

[Dagon]

Why did he power up so much from when he first received the sensu to when he fought Jeice?

He was healed.

Skip to the end let's not be rhetorical.