Vegeta (vs jheese)

[Evil Vegeta]

Ginyu told Goku that it was "poor planning" on his end because now he's unable to stop him. Goku basically agreed since he also noted he couldn't move anymore. If Ginyu could get his hands on a perfectly functioning Vegeta, it's over. In Goku's mind, Vegeta Ginyu would be more than enough to crush them all. Given the situation, that seems like a fairly logical conclusion. I don't think my point clashes with Kenshi's point one bit.

Anyway, where's the other thread with the discussion? I wanna read.

 

[Papasmurf]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6388

It was this thread I believe which also went on for a few pages, which is why I'm rather unmotivated on this subject as a whole.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Thanks fam. Gonna read through it.

FTR, I always thought the "power nap" was horseshit. He didn't even sleep that long.

 

[Keedounan]

Another argument in favor of Vegeta being 500k even before his nap: see Jheese's scouter ? It was able to read KKx2 Goku's power without breaking. When he read Vegeta's power, it broke. It puts Vegeta (vs Jheese) at least stronger than KKx2 Goku. How did Jheese survive any of his hits, then ? I guess that Vegeta simply powered up to show how outclassed Jheese was, then held back to sadistically make him suffer before killing him. Wouldn't be out of character at this time.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Jheese took the scouter off and crushed it.

 

[p123]

Jeice broke it himself, Vegeta didn't break it.

Kenshi has a problem with Vegeta getting a 10x power up, but not Gohan/Krillen? Why?

 

[Papasmurf]

The two got potential unlocks that made their powers continually increase every fight. Vegeta not so much. Goku also didn't gain shit from fighting with Ginyu, only from the near death injury Vegeta inflicted.

 

[Keedounan]

Jheese took the scouter off and crushed it.

*check the manga*

Yeah that's right.

 

[p123]

Vegeta's zenkai works in nearly the same fashion as the power unlock though.

 

[Papasmurf]

Different in that he needs to be critically injured to activate it. It's not like everyone is gaining free power ups when even Piccolo with his massive Kaio gains doesn't gain jack from fighting Freeza.

 

[p123]

No. Vegeta states this is no ordinary increase and that his power is continually growing. This is not a regular zenkai, he gets a sort of extended zenkai. The gift that keeps on giving. From last that I remembered, that was what was happening there. His zenkai works nearly in the same fashion as Guru's potential unlock, nothing like typical zenkais or training gains.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'm getting continually stronger doesn't have to mean his power was randomly increasing imo. He's been powering up more and more with each zenkai considering this was the biggest one yet, and he makes the same comment about getting close to the SSJ before and after the nap. I don't think the nap increased his power at all.

Furthermore, if fighting Jheese randomly caused his power to go up I fail to see why it wouldn't go up from a power struggle with Freeza which clearly strained him. The random increase argument I only buy for Gohan and Krillin. He even says specifically that he'll become a Super Saiyan if he's put in near death once again before his Krillin zenkai as well.

 

[p123]

So you are saying Vegeta is 500,000 right after he gets the sensu bean from Goku? That is ridiculous.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think he didn't realize he had gained all that power until he fought Jheese, but it's the zenkai itself that brought him that far. He even says this must be my limit when Freeza proves to be too strong for him in 4th form, I don't think he ever got random boosts.

 

[ahill1]

I think Vegeta vs jheese didn't use as much strength as he used against Freeza since the scouter didn't broke like it did later.

But then again, it isn't said (in the Daizenshuu, I guess) that the scouter breaks by the suddenly quick increase, rather than the amount of battle power it reads?

 

[p123]

Lol. So Vegeta could have destroyed Goku, Ginyu and Jeice all at the same time? Sure...

 

[Papasmurf]

Could just not know his power yet.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I'm starting to think he was just unaware of his power. Vegeta was kinda bitching at the idea of dealing with Ginyu Goku because "it's still Kakarot's power", and he assumed the new Goku wouldn't do shit to Freeza without being immortal himself.

 

[Papasmurf]

Plus the fact that he's immediately confident he won't go down against Freeza easily when talking about how he's close to a SSJ - the same comment he made when he talked about how big his power increase was to Jheese.

 

[p123]

As far as I remember, he mentions that it is a delayed zenkai. He is steadily growing stronger, not simply zenkai wise, but I'd have to read through the statements again. Last I remember looking into it, that's what I read.