Vegeta (vs jheese)

[Pyro]

As far as I remember, he mentions that it is a delayed zenkai. He is steadily growing stronger, not simply zenkai wise, but I'd have to read through the statements again. Last I remember looking into it, that's what I read.

That statement reads more along the lines of him powering up so much recently. He gained a ton of power in a short span of time, so it makes more sense than it being about a sudden delayed zenkai.

Chapter: 289 (DBZ 95), P6.1-2
Context: after Jheese freaks out over Vegeta's new battle power
Vegeta: “That’s right…I’ve surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more…The truth is that I’ve realized it too…That this extension of my power isn’t merely what you’d call giftedness…In other words…I’m steadily drawing near…to becoming a Super Saiyan!”

 

[SSJ2]

He says his power is still increasing. I don't see why he needs to be 500,000 there.

 

[ahill1]

As far as I remember, he mentions that it is a delayed zenkai. He is steadily growing stronger, not simply zenkai wise, but I'd have to read through the statements again. Last I remember looking into it, that's what I read.

That statement reads more along the lines of him powering up so much recently. He gained a ton of power in a short span of time, so it makes more sense than it being about a sudden delayed zenkai.

Chapter: 289 (DBZ 95), P6.1-2
Context: after Jheese freaks out over Vegeta's new battle power
Vegeta: “That’s right…I’ve surpassed Saiyan limits, and my strength is still increasing more and more…The truth is that I’ve realized it too…That this extension of my power isn’t merely what you’d call giftedness…In other words…I’m steadily drawing near…to becoming a Super Saiyan!”

Doesn't it kind imply the contrary? "My strength is still increasing more and more" implies it's something still happening at that moment. He says he surpassed the Saiya-jin wall, which is something he just achieved, further implying that the "still getting stronger" is something related to the present, no? If achieving his race's limits is something he just achieved, then the "still getting stronger (which in the line is more something like "what's more, on top of that") would be rather out of context if it's something related to past happenings imo.


Now that Kenshi linked to that other thread, I think the point I've raised there is pretty fair:

That was right after defeating Ginyu. Why would Vegeta consider he'd turn a SSJ after defeating Freeza? Unless he thought he'd receive a near death increase before fighting Freeza, then it should be due to him steadily increasing his powers, no?


Note: sorry if I'm seeming a bit contradictory on this matter (since I stated I believe Vegeta is 250k~500k and I'm arguing otherwise), but it's that I'm still seeing some good points indicating otherwise.

 

[Pyro]

No, you're right, I'll delete my post.

 

[ahill1]

Haha, no need to delete it man.

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta planned to be immortal before defeating Freeza, no? That'd pretty much guarantee instant zenkais since he'd heal immediately from injury.

 

[SSJ2]

Potentially, but immortality could end Zenkais due to there being no such thing as near death.

 

[Papasmurf]

He'd probably assume he'd get them to turn SSJ if he mistakenly thought another zenkai would be what pushes him to the Super Saiyan level. It's not about outlasting Freeza either if he's certain he'd be an SSJ by the time he's killed.

 

[ahill1]

I dunno if he were thinking about the Dragon Balls. The first thing he did after putting Goku to heal was take a nap and didn't seem to care for it until after he saw either Gohan or Kuririn summon Porunga. But on the other hand Vegeta mentioned that "there's the matter of the Dragon Balls" as a reason to not kill Goku and the others. Dunno.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Vegeta is all over the place. Based on what ahill posted, he's expecting to become a Super Saiyan at least by the time Freeza's defeated. This was said after he claimed he'll need Goku at full-power for the Freeza battle.

Right before he's about to get his wish, he says he'll wear Freeza down, then someday he'll defeat him to rule the universe. That almost makes it seem like he believes defeating Freeza is something that won't happen for the foreseeable future. You can't make a logical assessment based on anything he says.

 

[p123]

Wooo suck it Kenshi! Told you I was right. BOOOYAAAAAAA

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, the "someday" defeat Freeza seems also rather strange if he were already that close to 1st form Freeza and fairly close to expected 2nd form Freeza that he thought with the other's help he'd win.

 

[Papasmurf]

I dunno if he were thinking about the Dragon Balls. The first thing he did after putting Goku to heal was take a nap and didn't seem to care for it until after he saw either Gohan or Kuririn summon Porunga. But on the other hand Vegeta mentioned that "there's the matter of the Dragon Balls" as a reason to not kill Goku and the others. Dunno.

He said he had no chance against Freeza for the time being even if he becomes immortal, so immortality was definitely part of his plan. He also said before he realized Porunga had a wish left that they fucked over the only hope of defeating Freeza which tells me immortality was crucial. But that does clash with him being confident they can fight 2nd form Freeza

On the other hand, Vegeta saying he's getting stronger in the present tense could mean he wasn't fully 500,000 when he beat Jheese, yet he also makes no note of a further increase when he fights Freeza, so I dunno. Could be that he had 500k before the nap but it wasn't instantly given when he healed post recoom.

 

[ahill1]

He said he had no chance against Freeza for the time being even if he becomes immortal, so immortality was definitely part of his plan. He also said before he realized Porunga had a wish left that they fucked over the only hope of defeating Freeza which tells me immortality was crucial. But that does clash with him being confident they can fight 2nd form Freeza

Then doesn't it imply he wasn't close to 500k until facing 1st form Freeza? I dunno exactly when the "I have no chance against Freeza unless I become immortal" (unless this is the "someday" statement) took place, but him going from thinking he had absolutely no chance against Freeza, that he'd someday win and that immortality was his only way out to we can win, if we fight together we will win somehow comes off to me as him believing more in his powers than before, which I couldn't see making sense if he was 500k all along. Dunno man.

 

[Papasmurf]

Also, the original dialogue isn't placing Freeza's eventual defeat so far as "someday," but "eventually I can win" really:

Vegeta expected zenkais in my opinion in light of this :elmo

He said he had no chance against Freeza for the time being even if he becomes immortal, so immortality was definitely part of his plan. He also said before he realized Porunga had a wish left that they fucked over the only hope of defeating Freeza which tells me immortality was crucial. But that does clash with him being confident they can fight 2nd form Freeza

Then doesn't it imply he wasn't close to 500k until facing 1st form Freeza? I dunno exactly when the "I have no chance against Freeza unless I become immortal" (unless this is the "someday" statement) took place, but him going from thinking he had absolutely no chance against Freeza, that he'd someday win and that immortality was his only way out to we can win, if we fight together we will win somehow comes off to me as him believing more in his powers than before, which I couldn't see making sense if he was 500k all along. Dunno man.

It's him making note of no further increase after he fights Freeza which is the problem. He had no problem stating his power kept getting stronger in the last fight and post-Earth/post-Zarbon.

 

[SSJ2]

Does it need to be noted when it's shown?????????????????????????????

 

[Papasmurf]

[youtube]xwvRU8ALAbs[/youtube]

Yes, yes it does

 

[Kyo]

wasn't tho

 

[Kyo]

i been ninja'd i must now retire

 

[SSJ2]

Get out of here old man.