Vegito1089 goku black Pls

[SSJ2]

Tenshithands > Kuririn is legit tho

You doubt the shoulders of Tenshinhan?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You doubt the shoulders of Tenshinhan?

Kuririn's head > Tenshinhan shoulder. Both shoulders are >> the head tho.

 

[SSJ2]

You doubt the shoulders of Tenshinhan?

Kuririn's head > Tenshinhan shoulder. Both shoulders are >> the head tho.

You've forgotten..

Tenshinhan >> anything Krillin has.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You've forgotten..

Tenshinhan >> anything Krillin has.

 

[SSJ2]

So you've seen the light?

 

[freezamite]

In any case, I prefer to take literally the words of Future Trunks, before calling him a liar.

Look, if you take literally the words of Future Trunks, you have to explain how he went from "in no way being a match" to "even I could fight them fairly well..." between chapters 348 and 355.

Chapter: 348 (page 6)
Trunks: "I... I can become a Super Saiyan, as well... but I was in no way a match for the two of them... their strength is unimaginable..."

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

Look, I'm not calling Trunks a liar just because I don't like what he says (and I wouldn't consider "a liar" someone that exaggerates some facts a bit in order to save the world), I'm saying that what he says at chapter 348 and what he says at chapter 355 is contradictory, and that I stick with what he says at chapter 355 because he had reasons to lie at chapter 348 (and before).

Now, you're saying that Trunks lied at chapter 355, that his claim about him being able to fight the androids fairly well was a lie, can I ask you what would Trunks accomplish by lying about that?
And if Trunks never lied, when did he power up between chapters 348 and 355? How much did his strength increase and how did he accomplish that?

If the power of the Base state of a Saiyan increases, the same happens with its levels of SSJ. It is very difficult to understand that?

No one is saying that the SSJ doesn't improve, what I'm saying (and its absolutely obvious because it's directly stated in the manga) is that the way to power up the SSJ forms is not the regular training that was enough to power up the base state, but a training around the mastering of the Ki in the SSJ forms.
In the 3 years from Yadrat to the Androids saga Goku's power only increased a 10-15%, we know that because Piccolo tells us SSJ Vegeta may have surpassed him, and once Goku discovers how to properly train the SSJ, in 1 year achieves much, much better results than Vegeta or Future Trunks in 2 whole years, even when they already knew Goku's trick to master the SSJ.

Not to mention it's shown he spend 3 days in a hospital after being pummeled by the twins on Trunks's special chapter. Can't post the scan tho.

Yes, he ended in the hospital because he lost the fight. Where do you think Piccolo would've ended after fighting 17 if instead of a Namek he was a human and had no senzu beans?
That doesn't mean Piccolo couldn't fight 17 fairly well.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yes, he ended in the hospital because he lost the fight. Where do you think Piccolo would've ended after fighting 17 if instead of a Namek he was a human and had no senzu beans?
That doesn't mean Piccolo couldn't fight 17 fairly well.

Found the page:

Trunks spend five days stuck in a hospital and cannot belive he
actually survived. Doesn't sound like the outcome for a fairly well fight.

 

[freezamite]

Found the page:

Trunks spend five days stuck in a hospital and cannot belive he
actually survived. Doesn't sound like the outcome for a fairly well fight.

Why not? In a fight to the death, even if you win you may end in the hospital if the fight is close enough. The more confusing part here (the one thing I though you were going to quote) is Trunks saying the androids still were more powerful, but as I said, that assessment also takes into account the unlimited energy of the androids.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Found the page:

Trunks spend five days stuck in a hospital and cannot belive he
actually survived. Doesn't sound like the outcome for a fairly well fight.

Why not? In a fight to the death, even if you win you may end in the hospital if the fight is close enough. The more confusing part here (the one thing I though you were going to quote) is Trunks saying the androids still were more powerful, but as I said, that assessment also takes into account the unlimited energy of the androids.

FFS trunks said that They were more powerful,not that they have more stamina and infinite energy.If power was not the problem he wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. And FFS,SSj trunks isn't much stronger than SSj Future Gohan who got tooled by 17 himself

 

[freezamite]

FFS trunks said that They were more powerful,not that they have more stamina and infinite energy.If power was not the problem he wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. And FFS,SSj trunks isn't much stronger than SSj Future Gohan who got tooled by 17 himself

Yeah, I'm sure Bulma is super interested in the intrinsics of the battle, and wants to know exactly how many PL units those machines want. How would dare Trunks say he was less powerful than two androids with unlimited energy that won the battle because they had more power since theirs didn't run out.

And you don't even know how 17&18 killed Gohan, "FFS". The last time (the one before he's killed) Gohan had fought the Androids (which we don't even know when it was) he was tooled, doesn't mean this time would've been the same.
And even accepting that it was, he only had 1 arm, and considering Trunks wasn't above the androids while still being a tad better than Gohan ever managed to be with his two arms, hey, that would have an impact on the fight as well I presume.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

FFS trunks said that They were more powerful,not that they have more stamina and infinite energy.If power was not the problem he wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. And FFS,SSj trunks isn't much stronger than SSj Future Gohan who got tooled by 17 himself

Yeah, I'm sure Bulma is super interested in the intrinsics of the battle, and wants to know exactly how many PL units those machines want. How would dare Trunks say he was less powerful than two androids with unlimited energy that won the battle because they had more power since theirs didn't run out.

And you don't even know how 17&18 killed Gohan, "FFS". The last time (the one before he's killed) Gohan had fought the Androids (which we don't even know when it was) he was tooled, doesn't mean this time would've been the same.
And even accepting that it was, he only had 1 arm, and considering Trunks wasn't above the androids while still being a tad better than Gohan ever managed to be with his two arms, hey, that would have an impact on the fight as well I presume.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[SSJ2]

Stop instigating shit. If you have nothing to say then be silent.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Stop instigating shit. If you have nothing to say then be silent.

was that referring to me?

 

[SSJ2]

Yea.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Yea.

this thread was created by me

Spoiler

WHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[SIAD]

In any case, I prefer to take literally the words of Future Trunks, before calling him a liar.

Look, if you take literally the words of Future Trunks, you have to explain how he went from "in no way being a match" to "even I could fight them fairly well..." between chapters 348 and 355.

Chapter: 348 (page 6)
Trunks: "I... I can become a Super Saiyan, as well... but I was in no way a match for the two of them... their strength is unimaginable..."

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

Look, I'm not calling Trunks a liar just because I don't like what he says (and I wouldn't consider "a liar" someone that exaggerates some facts a bit in order to save the world), I'm saying that what he says at chapter 348 and what he says at chapter 355 is contradictory, and that I stick with what he says at chapter 355 because he had reasons to lie at chapter 348 (and before).

Now, you're saying that Trunks lied at chapter 355, that his claim about him being able to fight the androids fairly well was a lie, can I ask you what would Trunks accomplish by lying about that?
And if Trunks never lied, when did he power up between chapters 348 and 355? How much did his strength increase and how did he accomplish that?

If the power of the Base state of a Saiyan increases, the same happens with its levels of SSJ. It is very difficult to understand that?

No one is saying that the SSJ doesn't improve, what I'm saying (and its absolutely obvious because it's directly stated in the manga) is that the way to power up the SSJ forms is not the regular training that was enough to power up the base state, but a training around the mastering of the Ki in the SSJ forms.
In the 3 years from Yadrat to the Androids saga Goku's power only increased a 10-15%, we know that because Piccolo tells us SSJ Vegeta may have surpassed him, and once Goku discovers how to properly train the SSJ, in 1 year achieves much, much better results than Vegeta or Future Trunks in 2 whole years, even when they already knew Goku's trick to master the SSJ.

Not to mention it's shown he spend 3 days in a hospital after being pummeled by the twins on Trunks's special chapter. Can't post the scan tho.

Yes, he ended in the hospital because he lost the fight. Where do you think Piccolo would've ended after fighting 17 if instead of a Namek he was a human and had no senzu beans?
That doesn't mean Piccolo couldn't fight 17 fairly well.

It's simple, in that period of time when Future Trunks went to the Future, he continued to train and increase his power.

Even the gap between Goku SSJ on Future Trunks SSJ decreased in those 3 years of training and we know that Goku strengthened in those 3 years.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Trunks was no match for the Androids yet could put up a fairly good fight. Not seeing how the statements contradict each other.

SSB Goku fought Jiren "fairly well" but isn't a match for him. SSJ Vegeta fought 18 "fairly well" but wasn't a match for her.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

Trunks was no match for the Androids yet could put up a fairly good fight. Not seeing how the statements contradict each other.

SSB Goku fought Jiren "fairly well" but isn't a match for him. SSJ Vegeta fought 18 "fairly well" but wasn't a match for her.

yea but this guy (freezasmite) is trying to tell us that Trunks needs to be equal at least to the one of the androids to put up a good fight.That and the androids have infinite stamina

 

[freezamite]

It's simple, in that period of time when Future Trunks went to the Future, he continued to train and increase his power.

Even the gap between Goku SSJ on Future Trunks SSJ decreased in those 3 years of training and we know that Goku strengthened in those 3 years.

The thing is, BOTH quotes are from AFTER the 3 years time-skip. In other words, you can't justify Trunks changing his stance on the subject by anything that happened during those 3 years, because he continued to say the exact same things when he came back.

He only changes his stance on the subject after the fight with the Androids, so or he increased his strength in the short period of time between his arrival from the future and the fight with the androids or there has to be a different explanation.

Trunks was no match for the Androids yet could put up a fairly good fight. Not seeing how the statements contradict each other.

SSB Goku fought Jiren "fairly well" but isn't a match for him. SSJ Vegeta fought 18 "fairly well" but wasn't a match for her.

Various things.
1. Vegeta had a PL comparable to 18, but he didn't fight her "fairly well". He was trashed in fact.
2. SSB Goku fought Jiren "fairly well"? Sorry but no.
3. When Trunks said what he said, he said it in comparison to the fight with the present androids. In other words, Trunks had a better fight against both androids in the future than anything that happened in the present.

is trying to tell us that Trunks needs to be equal at least to the one of the androids to put up a good fight.That and the androids have infinite stamina

In fact I'm saying that Trunks may have been above both future androids, just not enough to compensate for their unlimited stamina. Otherwise the fight would've gone like the one with Vegeta, and I'm not sure anyone would considere that to be a close fight or would say that Vegeta could fight 18 "fairly well".

 

[SIAD]

The theme is simple. The power of Gero + the energies of Piccolo (Suppressed) + Gohan + Krillin + Tenshinhan would be enough to give Vegeta SSJ some trouble (Androids).

It is assumed that Vegeta Base (Androids)> Goku Base (Androids)> Piccolo (Suppressed) >> Gohan (Androids)> Krillin (Androids)> Tenshinhan (Androids).

This means that even Humans are not insignificant compared to the power of Namek's Freezer.