What's the power difference between Pui and Vegeta?

[ahill1]

@FeatsofPower

Babidi doesn't even get the Saiyans power right. You'd need to prove he knows Shin's powers. Him knowing he defeated his father is different from knowing his abilities. Did he know how he defeated his father? Did Shin need FP to defeat his father? Likely not, he would have done that in one shot, his father was even weaker than Babidi whom Piccolo took in one hit.

Base Vegeta is impressive because he thinks Pui Pui is impressive. Again, why would he be gaushing at a 2 power level when he sensed a 10 before? Likely because something else was affecting his rationality.

He sensed Gohan... he directly commented on him having more power than he though --- and based on this he wasn't sure he could restrain him.

Gohan knows Piccolo isn't gonna KO him when Piccolo, above all else, knows Gohan is trying to keep his identity and handicapping himself. He knows Piccolo has standards. Vegeta also may know Piccolo somewhat well and even if he didn't, he knew he could be pitied against Goku and Gohan before Piccolo. And even if he weren't, he would give two fucks and KO Piccolo with SSJ as he won't lose his chance because of the media. Maybe he could turn into one so fast no one could see the change. Didn't Goku turn into a SSJ2 in a very quick burst? And they have total mastery over SSJ.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think the 10G is just one of those inconsistent feats. Like Piccolo blowing up the moon and then being in shock that Nappa can make a big hole in the ground.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Base Vegeta is impressive because he thinks Pui Pui is impressive.

Pui Pui IS impressive. They are literally watching his movements! You act as if they'd say the same thing about Raditz in there. Please.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He might not be aware of many things.
It's completely arbitrary to accept that he was unaware of the extent of Kaioshin's techniques, but still give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his knowledge of Kaioshin's power level. All he knows for sure is that this dude beat his daddy before.

Sure and that's plenty, especially when Kaioshin's energy seems to match Badibi's energy in regards to how the fight will go down.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It's like saying that Gohan and Krillin would've lost to Gurd on their own. Which they would have.
The point is that Babidi was wrong, and the estimations and predictions he pulls out of thin air are anything but clear-cut.

Losing and power levels are two different stories.

It's like saying Gurd's power level > Gohan, which is absurd.

Badibi's estimates are in line with Kaioshins.

 

[ahill1]

Can Pui Pui defeat Gohan? Again, why is Shin surprised by base Vegeta when he seemed more indifferent at SSJ2 Gohan? And I'll say in advance I've already addressed the argument about him forgetting about Gohan --- forgetting one thing doesn't change the way he reacts to things. It's like I sense a 8 power level and am indifferent. And then sense a 2 and I am fucking shitting myself... would you justify that because I forgot I sensed the 8 pl before? Come on.

 

[Kyo]

Sure and that's plenty, especially when Kaioshin's energy seems to match Badibi's energy in regards to how the fight will go down.

Explain? That's a hard pill to swallow after we saw how Babidi acted when he was threatened by a dude even weaker than Kaioshin; he called Boo for help.

Badibi's estimates are in line with Kaioshins.

Not at all. Did Kaioshin think Pui Pui would beat all 4 of them?

 

[Kyo]

Sure and that's plenty, especially when Kaioshin's energy seems to match Badibi's energy in regards to how the fight will go down.

Oh, I misread what you meant by energy and thought you were referring to a Babidi vs Kaioshin 1v1 for some reason. Still, refer to my second point above.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Not at all. Did Kaioshin think Pui Pui would beat all 4 of them?

He thought it was definitely possible.

 

[Kyo]

He's flabbergasted that the Saiyans want to 1v1 the guy because their demeanor is completely off from his, but I don't see where he thinks that a 4v1 assault might result in a loss (and he'd be wrong just like Babidi is).
Regardless, even if he thinks it's possible, that's not in line with what Babidi thinks because Babidi believes it's a certainty. He thinks they're straight trash, garbo, doodoo; the dude looks away for a couple of minutes and expects Pui Pui to be done by the time he looks back.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He's flabbergasted that the Saiyans want to 1v1 the guy because their demeanor is completely off from his

Let's start off with some groundwork. How does Kaioshin think he will fare against the Saiyans 1 v 1?

 

[Kyo]

He thinks he'd lose...and he urges these people he thinks he'd lose to, to be careful against another guy...and then he can't believe how strong these people he thinks he'd lose to are when they beat this other guy.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He thinks he'd lose...and he urges these people he thinks he'd lose to, to be careful against another guy...and then he can't believe how strong these people he thinks he'd lose to are when they beat this other guy.

Yes, because he knows Badibi collects the strongest fighters in the universe and that this threat should not be taken lightly at all.

Kaioshin thinks its possible they can lose to this one guy, so they need to fight all four, if he didn't think it was possible, there'd be no need to gang up.

Also, Base Vegeta can't be impressive unless Pui Pui is also impressive. Kaioshin is only shocked how strong Vegeta is based off of knowing how strong Pui Pui is.

 

[ahill1]

Kaioshin can stop SSJ2 Gohan. Chaozu can't stop Nappa when the gap was 610 vs 4,000, that is, around 7x... Shin less than 7x weaker than SSJ2 Gohan confirmed.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Kaioshin can stop SSJ2 Gohan. Chaozu can't stop Nappa when the gap was 610 vs 4,000, that is, around 7x... Shin less than 7x weaker than SSJ2 Gohan confirmed.

So all paralysis technique is equal? Just like all ki blast techniques are equal. Oh wait.

 

[ahill1]

Yes, it's a paralysing technique

 

[Kyo]

Yes, because he knows Badibi collects the strongest fighters in the universe and that this threat should not be taken lightly at all.

This is what tells us that he doesn't know how strong Pui Pui is, because he doesn't just say that Pui Pui is strong, or "oh, it's Pui Pui, I know this guy, watch out," like with Yakon.

Kaioshin thinks its possible they can lose to this one guy, so they need to fight all four, if he didn't think it was possible, there'd be no need to gang up.

He also doesn't want to give up any energy to Boo if he can avoid it. Gohan eventually wanted to gang up on Yakon too, remember?
You have to consider the difference in demeanor too. The Saiyans treat it like a game and Kaioshin is treating it very seriously...if ganging up is an option, why wouldn't they want to gang up?

Also, Base Vegeta can't be impressive unless Pui Pui is also impressive. Kaioshin is only shocked how strong Vegeta is based off of knowing how strong Pui Pui is.

Like I said, I'd agree, if not for the 10g. But since the 10g line exists, it's easy to accept that Kaioshin is shocked at how strong Vegeta is because he simply saw how strong Vegeta is.
We both know the basic details, but I see little reason to give Babidi and Kaioshin any credit when they're both lacking the requisite knowledge to make their claims. I'd just accept them regardless if there was nothing else, but there is, and it comes from one of the guys actually in the fight. I'd sooner take his word than theirs.

 

[FeatsofPower]

This is what tells us that he doesn't know how strong Pui Pui is, because he doesn't just say that Pui Pui is strong, or "oh, it's Pui Pui, I know this guy, watch out," like with Yakon.

He knows exactly how strong Pui Pui is though.

He also doesn't want to give up any energy to Boo if he can avoid it.

Giving up energy is not possible unless Badibi's men are threats. Would Kaioshin worry about giving up energy to Raditz?

Gohan eventually wanted to gang up on Yakon too, remember?

Because despite Goku being ok to fight Yakkon, it's still a disadvantage to be fighting in the dark. If there's a choice, they rather fight in the light.

The Saiyans treat it like a game and Kaioshin is treating it very seriously...i

Exactly. Why is it a game to the Saiyans? Because of their strength. Why is Kaioshin taking it very seriously? Because of his lack of strength. That's the entire point here brother.

if ganging up is an option, why wouldn't they want to gang up?

Because Saiyans have their pride. Also, why would you gang up on an insect? Vegeta was willing to let everyone die instead of jumping on Cell because of pride and honor. Same reason they didn't use the potara against Kid Buu.

Like I said, I'd agree, if not for the 10g. But since the 10g line exists, it's easy to accept that Kaioshin is shocked at how strong Vegeta is because he simply saw how strong Vegeta is.

The 10g doesn't work the way you are taking it though. None of this works with someone on Raditz level. You have to pieces of the coin, you can't disregard the entire saga because of the 10g line. There are plenty of gravity inconsistencies to handwaive this indirect implication as well.

We both know the basic details, but I see little reason to give Babidi and Kaioshin any credit when they're both lacking the requisite knowledge to make their claims. I'd just accept them regardless if there was nothing else, but there is, and it comes from one of the guys actually in the fight. I'd sooner take his word than theirs.

Because they both know directly how strong Pui Pui is.

 

[ahill1]

Kaioshin is still overestimating Pui Pui if he is so impressed at base Vegeta's powers after sensing Gohan's.

 

[Kyo]

"Be careful, Babidi's known for gathering strong men!" versus "Be careful, he's strong!"
No, Kaioshin doesn't know.

Because despite Goku being ok to fight Yakkon, it's still a disadvantage to be fighting in the dark. If there's a choice, they rather fight in the light.

Meaning there's other reasons to want to gang up, besides thinking they could potentially lose a 4v1. In Kaioshin's case, it's better safe than sorry.

Exactly. Why is it a game to the Saiyans? Because of their strength. Why is Kaioshin taking it very seriously? Because of his lack of strength. That's the entire point here brother.


Because Saiyans have their pride. Also, why would you gang up on an insect? Vegeta was willing to let everyone die instead of jumping on Cell because of pride and honor. Same reason they didn't use the potara against Kid Buu.

That is the difference in demeanor I'm illustrating. "Why wouldn't they want to gang up?" is a question someone would ask from Kaioshin's perspective; again, better safe than sorry.

The 10g doesn't work the way you are taking it though. None of this works with someone on Raditz level. You have to pieces of the coin, you can't disregard the entire saga because of the 10g line. There are plenty of gravity inconsistencies to handwaive this indirect implication as well.

Pui Pui being stronger than Kaioshin isn't the entire saga.
Base Vegeta >>> Kaioshin is the main takeaway there, which nobody's throwing away. Base Saiyan dicksucking in general is the point of the Babidi arc, which nobody's throwing away.
Also, you could Pui Pui in the tens of millions or so and that'd be fine...like I said, 10g still throws people like Kid Gohan for a loop.