Z Rewatch

[FeatsofPower]

Actually, this is my first time watching Z from the beginning straight through. Z is far, far superior to Kai and it's not even close. I was super impressed with the Raditz Saga, it moved beautifully, no delays or anything. The Snake Way filler was starting to get to me a little, but you know what, it was good as well. Gave Gohan some character development that I liked.

This is an awesome time, I've never taken the time to just sit down and watch it. Always studying the manga and looking for power level logic/debate and so on. It's nice to sit back and enjoy. Of course I intend on increasing my knowledge as well, but it's mostly for enjoyment.

And now I think the series has just hit it's stride. Just finished Goku vs Nappa and now Goku vs Vegeta is coming up and I'm forgetting I'm watching an old cartoon that I already know everything that is going to happen, and I'm starting to get lost in the enjoyment. I'm super excited to watch my favorite series.

I do intend on working on the Saiyan Saga as a whole soon and watching the subtitled version, but man, the voice acting in absolutely excellent in Z. I love Vegeta's more raspy, evil voice and how his voice changes over time. Gohan's voice actor is much better than Kai's.

Basically, Kai sucks.

 

[Classic Adamas]

Kai is good though

 

[SSJ2]

I don’t think Kai was all that bad aside from keeping in certain filler. Though I’ve never watched the Japanese Z anime all the way through so it’s hard to compare. I started watching it through last year and put it aside, maybe I’ll start up again.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don’t think Kai was all that bad aside from keeping in certain filler. Though I’ve never watched the Japanese Z anime all the way through so it’s hard to compare. I started watching it through last year and put it aside, maybe I’ll start up again.

DragonBall is better in many-ways. At-least a better adaptation I think I think. The filler is better too. The music too IIRC. DragonBall Z anime drags once you know what comes next with the constant cut-aways or just stare-downs, even-though I know AT didn’t like some-things about the DragonBall anime. At the same time he didn’t think the DragonBall Z anime showed Goku’s character right so it all evens out I guess.

 

[Kyo]

Kai is technically much better paced than Z. I can't sit down and watch Z in its entirety anymore, I just don't have the time. It moves at a snail's pace and adapts, on average, slightly more than one chapter per episode. That's just unacceptable. Even sub-100 episode series test my patience these days.

That being said, Kai is less a remake and more a shit-tier fan edit of Z. Yes, it cuts down a lot of the fat, but it does so with little rhyme or reason, especially in the Boo arc where a lot of the filler is just left alone for no good reason. And because it doesn't actually remake the series, and just awkwardly cuts up what already exists, some of the fights just don't flow well imo (although I suppose that's still better than watching the same animations loop 13 times per fight in Z). Also, while trying to cut down the fat is good, there's good content that gets caught up in it -- added scenes in Z that bring some levity to the series and add to the character moments, akin to much of the OG Dragon Ball filler. This is stuff that the manga often lacked and a lot of this is what sticks with you when you watch the anime, despite all the fluff surrounding it.

More importantly, Kai looks like fucking SHIT because the upscale is terrible, there look to be shitty filters applied to some scenes (there's definitely some ugly fucking tint overlaid atop most if not all of the Boo arc), and the DNR is applied poorly/excessively and there are tons of redrawn MSPaint-looking frames because the original cels were either "damaged" or they'd color over the original cels because reasons, and these were interspersed with frames that were relatively untouched, resulting in an even more jarring effect than if the entire show just looked like a shitty school flash animation project (see below for a couple of examples of the redrawn frames*; if you think that shit looks good then you lack functioning eyeballs. DBZ's look was very inconsistent and oftentimes bad depending on who was animating the episode -- see below for an example of that too** -- but at least the image quality was consistent and generally looked acceptable). Plus, even the least censored version of Kai is still more censored than the original for no good reason.

The Yamamoto score I liked (there are some bad tracks though), but when he got ousted after it turned out he plagiarized that shit, it got haphazardly replaced by the Kikuchi score around the Cell arc, except that they only used like 15% of the tracks from the original and placed them randomly throughout with no regard for what would be fitting for the scene.

With all that word salad aside, I'd like to reiterate that the OG DBZ's pacing is still fucked in my opinion...though at least you can fast-forward through, if not outright skip, a lot of the fluff, if you really feel like it. You can't do anything about the mushy upscale or amateurish redrawn frames in Kai, although sometimes I still think it's worth stomaching to experience a less padded out product.


Putting that aside, it's good to hear that you're having fun with the show @FeatsofPower. For all my bitching, there's a lot of good that Toei did in adapting the source material. I think you're in for a treat when you get to the Cell Games and the Boo arc in particular; I think this is when Toei is at their best in terms of production, even if they mangle the plot of the Boo arc towards the end. Personally, the thing I appreciate most about the series these days is Akira Toriyama's crisp fight choreography, and I think the anime just falls short of capturing that a lot of the time. But when it gets it right, the impact is palpable and it's good stuff.

Spoiler: *OG DBZ

Spoiler: *Kai

Spoiler: *Another one from Kai

Spoiler: **DBZ's inconsistent animation

 

[FeatsofPower]

Kai is technically much better paced than Z. I can't sit down and watch Z in its entirety anymore, I just don't have the time. It moves at a snail's pace and adapts, on average, slightly more than one chapter per episode. That's just unacceptable. Even sub-100 episode series test my patience these days.

The Raditz Saga and the Vegeta Saga is moving at the proper pace. It can't be all action all the time. The filler episodes for the training for the Saiyans was a bit much, but it was pretty much all good. The series is moving along quite fast from the get-go. I know the Freeza Saga is where it got out of control, but so far so good.

Even sub-100 episode series test my patience these days.

Yeah I'm with you on that but this is a massive story. It's going to take some episodes for sure.

With all that word salad aside, I'd like to reiterate that the OG DBZ's pacing is still fucked in my opinion...though at least you can fast-forward through, if not outright skip, a lot of the fluff, if you really feel like it. You can't do anything about the mushy upscale or amateurish redrawn frames in Kai, although sometimes I still think it's worth stomaching to experience a less padded out product.

When does it start? Freeza Saga?


Yeesh, Kai looks like a dumpster fire.

 

[Kyo]

The Saiyan saga is decent, I think it could still be pared-down but the canon episodes adapt an appropriate amount of the source most of the time so it's not bad. It has some of that decent filler, although the Snake Way shit got to be a bit much.

When does it start? Freeza Saga?

Yeah. It's been a while, but I remember that it's really painful up until at least the Ginyus' appearance. And then the Freeza fight drags ass at places, though it's still iconic so you kinda take it for what it is.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Kyouks sounds like he’s angry at some-thing & needed an outlet.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Dragon Ball is an epic, it has every right to be long just like LotR.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Yeah. It's been a while, but I remember that it's really painful up until at least the Ginyus' appearance. And then the Freeza fight drags ass at places, though it's still iconic so you kinda take it for what it is.

Honestly, some of the best moments in Dragonball is the never-ending powering up. When I watched Kai and saw how quickly they got through some things, it was completely jarring. It didn't effectively portray the tension of the moment like Z used to do from what I could remember.

I'm sure Freeza powering up to full power for 10 episodes is too long lol, but yeah Z actually adds some real weight to the scenes whereas Kai feels like it's rushing through the story which is to be avoided at all costs. We aren't trying to rush through the best anime of all time, we are trying to enjoy it.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Watching KKx3 Goku vs Vegeta. The cadence and timing is so perfect. Kai lacked proper build up and tension. Goku is powering up for quite a while, we get cut scenes from other fighters around the world and universe reacting to him and he powers up throughout it all, the opponent, trembling in fear.

This is peak DBZ. This is how it's done. I've finally hit an elite portion of Z right now. Super epic. Something that early DB didn't really have, even with the amazing Piccolo sagas, this level of Z-ism didn't occur until this very moment.

Goku powering up against Nappa was definitely cool, but this one right here is next level without a doubt. This is the moment that broke the mold.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Here's the real question: Are you sitting through the Fake Namek episodes?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Here's the real question: Are you sitting through the Fake Namek episodes?

Yeah, I have to have the experience I think. It sounds like it'll be rough though. I don't even know what that's all about, the legendary Fake Namek episodes give me the chills though already haha.

 

[Kyo]

Honestly, some of the best moments in Dragonball is the never-ending powering up. When I watched Kai and saw how quickly they got through some things, it was completely jarring. It didn't effectively portray the tension of the moment like Z used to do from what I could remember.

I agree, on some things. Like Goku's first SSJ transformation? That one's perfect in the Z anime. I don't think Toriyama understood the gravitas behind what he was drawing the first time around. Generally the transformations are good.

The stuff that's hardest to watch for me is the padding they add to the later fights. But there's good and bad there too. Goku vs Majin Vegeta is much better in the anime.