Zamasu is over-rated

[Fantastische Hure]

I think people over-rate this gai. Sure he has motivations slightly different from the cookie-cutter generic villain who's all about ruling the entire universe but he's so one dimensional in the anime. That's all he talks about. How humans don't deserve to be around and that Gods are absolute. There's nothing more to his character. The concept behind his character is interesting but the execution lags because there's no ambiguity or anything more to his character (you can basically define his character in one sentence even if you wanted to there's really nothing to discuss).

The one interesting thing he said though was that the era of the low gods like the Kaio-Shin is over but even that is contradicted now with the South Kaio-Shin who blows Zamasu out of the water.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Pretty sure the only one who overrates him is Fearless. The majority of the fanbase seem in agreement of him being one of the worst villains in the franchise and entirely flat.

Also, he's just a pale imitation of Poseidon and Hades from Saint Seiya, with the difference being you could at least see some justification for their goals when they wanted humanity reborn in their idealised worlds, whereas Zamasu's whole goal was "kill everyone who isn't me".

Zamasu's basically the Elliot Rogers of Dragon Ball.

 

[Papasmurf]

Hes only slightly better than Kid Boo as far as villains go.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

The greatness of Zamasu cannot be comprehend by mortals.

Anyway, he's a complicated character that he actually thought he was doing the right way (his own way). The only villains that could be argue better than Zamasu were Frieza, Baby and King Piccolo and others weren't that good at all. His character might be done in other animes but not in DB which sets him apart from other villains.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Cell himself might not have been interesting but the concept behind his creation I thought was good enough (even-though that's more of an RRA thing).

CC, I've think I remember seeing Kanzenshuu over-rate Zamasu as this great villain which he never was. He was one-note.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Anyway, he's a complicated character that he actually thought he was doing the right way (his own way). The only villains that could be argue better than Zamasu were Frieza, Baby and King Piccolo and others weren't that good at all. His character might be done in other animes but not in DB which sets him apart from other villains.

Execution matters far more than premise, and the execution of a villain who's overall goal is to create a reality without mortals by wiping out Gods as well and anything else that isn't himself isn't good whatsoever.

CC, I've think I remember seeing Kanzenshuu over-rate Zamasu as this great villain which he never was. He was one-note.

I don't visit Kanzenshuu's forum, so I'll have to take your word for it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Cell and Boo seems a lot similar to me. Both are made as a destruction of the universe and the difference between them is that Cell also have to kill Goku. But if you look in the paper they're both same. Not to mention most of their abilities.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Anyway, he's a complicated character that he actually thought he was doing the right way (his own way). The only villains that could be argue better than Zamasu were Frieza, Baby and King Piccolo and others weren't that good at all. His character might be done in other animes but not in DB which sets him apart from other villains.

Execution matters far more than premise, and the execution of a villain who's overall goal is to create a reality without mortals by wiping out Gods as well and anything else that isn't himself isn't good whatsoever.

Seems to me he did what he had to do and succeeded too which also caused a permanent damage that can never be fixed. Sure we have a different expectation of the character which I can agree with that.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Seems to me he did what he had to do and succeeded too which also caused a permanent damage that can never be fixed. Sure we have a different expectation of the character which I can agree with that.

If a character's main motivation is killing all mortals so the Gods can remain unchallenged and in peace, my expectation is that he does that and that his goal isn't just "Kill everyone who isn't me because I can."

 

[Papasmurf]

Zamasu isn't that interesting for a couple of reasons. Firstly, his backstory is pretty stale, what with him going evil just from seeing one mortal race be barbaric and seeing little change, even though the fact that mortals in other planets set up things such as laws, modern medicine etc. to improve the quality of life and to maintain order could easily be used to prove the opposite. If he as a Kaio had been repeatedly trying to quell pointless wars between mortals, saw this to be a fruitless effort as a junior Kaio , then decided there was no other way, it'd have been much better.

Secondly, he has no guilt whatsoever in wiping out godly life, even though him heavily hesitating prior to killing other gods could've illustrated more complexity in his character. This doesn't happen, because I guess they thought that one instance of him being dissatisfied with barbarians (and being beaten by Goku, which in the anime seems to be his ulterior motive instead lol) was somehow enough to justify this massive heel turn.

He had some potential as a villain but like most of Super he just wasn't that well handled. Still better than or Mr. I've been beaten by the same weakness I had back on Namek, but only because Goku Black in the anime showed some layers in his character by adopting Saiyan traits to show divergent paths Zamasu could take.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Seems to me he did what he had to do and succeeded too which also caused a permanent damage that can never be fixed. Sure we have a different expectation of the character which I can agree with that.

If a character's main motivation is killing all mortals so the Gods can remain unchallenged and in peace, my expectation is that he does that and that his goal isn't just "Kill everyone who isn't me because I can."

Doesn't most of the villain doesn't want to be challenge hence they kill their enemies like Frieza did to the Saiyans? Zamasu doesn't want to kill the gods but he had to since they'll ruin his plan otherwise he'd leave them alone.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Still better than

Manga Jiren >>> Zamasu tho'. He's still not a good character, but at least he has an actual motivation and isn't inconsistent like his anime self, which is more than can be said of either version of Zamasu.

Doesn't most of the villain doesn't want to be challenge hence they kill their enemies like Frieza did to the Saiyans? Zamasu doesn't want to kill the gods but he had to since they'll ruin his plan otherwise he'd leave them alone.

As Kenshi said, he shows no guilt or indecision in the action, which makes his inconsistency hollow and an example of bad writing rather than complexity.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Why would he feel guilty if he thought he was doing the right thing? Doesn't that described him like a psychopath/sociopath whatever that is.

 

[Papasmurf]

Manga Jiren mostly fell apart when he started acting just like his anime self as soon as the ToP started imo. The guy who was so humble and down to earth and devoted to protecting the weak that he initially was going to just accept universal destruction and not partake in the ToP, just turns into a more talkative version of his anime self when the ToP starts (telling Goku to fuck off, looking down on his teammates and not even saving them from elimination etc.).

I still agree he has less inconsistency/contradiction in motivation than Zamasu, although since Zamasu is an irredeemable villain following his heel-turn while Jiren is a heroic antagonist you could say the contradictions were intentional to a degree.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Why would he feel guilty if he thought he was doing the right thing?

Maybe because it directly goes against the reason for his plan?

Doesn't that described him like a psychopath/sociopath whatever that is.

It would if he was properly portrayed like this and had far less glaring flaws in his plans and reasoning. Instead, he's just portrayed as a typical narcissistic villain without the slightest defence of his hypocrisy.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah like I said, fixing Zamasu really doesn't take much. He just needs to have been trying to redeem mortals far longer than the 20 minutes he spent being butthurt over the backwardness of mortals like in the manga (and getting beaten by one in the animu) before jumping to such extremes so we know he was at one point a fundamentally good man, and for him to go through additional phases of moderate villainy before he sinks to straight up killing mortals and gods alike. Good writing takes rhyme and reason, and a student of Gowasu with slightly warped ideals turning to a monster in 2 minutes just isn't good. The anime and manga both don't do this, so he doesn't work as a sympathetic villain. He's just portrayed as a big fat hypocrite who just kills everything he dislikes including higher gods.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Why would he feel guilty if he thought he was doing the right thing?

Maybe because it directly goes against the reason for his plan?

Doesn't that described him like a psychopath/sociopath whatever that is.

It would if he was properly portrayed like this and had far less glaring flaws in his plans and reasoning. Instead, he's just portrayed as a typical narcissistic villain without the slightest defence of his hypocrisy.

Anyone who threaten his plan shall be eliminated hence he feel guiltless. Also aren't most of the villain hypocritical? Not saying Zamasu is a perfect villain but compare to the other villain he stands out to me.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Anyone who threaten his plan shall be eliminated hence he feel guiltless.

Which would be fine if he not only pointed that out in defence of his actions, but also properly explained how and why it was for the greater good in his plan when the result is the same in Zamasu being the only being in existence once it was all done.

Also aren't most of the villain hypocritical?

Not really as they never contradicted their core beliefs and goals until Zamasu and Jiren. Having a direct opposition to your plans and not wanting them to succeed is far from the same as having core beliefs in your plan you abandon without the slightest forethought when convenient.

Not saying Zamasu is a perfect villain but compare to the other villain he stands out to me.

Only on paper. When seeing how he executes his plan and what the end result means, he's no different from Cell or Boo. If anything, Boo has more going for him since Fat Boo at least had some level of internal conflict.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I agree not wanting to harm the other fellow gods could have definitely made Zamasu better. It'd have at-least kept some consistency (or he was just hypocritical and wanted a reason to act like a psycho) and made for some interesting conflicts.

I thought one kewl thing the manga did was differentiate Zamasu from Goku-Black, they even got into a bit of an argument when everything wasn't working-out like they wanted to. They are both the same characters but in slightly different positions so it makes sense for one of them to feel let-down by the other not living-up to his promise.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Also Cell >>> Boo in my opinion because for example with Cell there's his weird relationship with Dr. Gero. He seems to revere him in a way but at the same time seems to not give a fack about anyone but himself. Maybe he respects him because he created him or whatever but wouldn't hesitate to slap him if he ever got too loud, but that's definitely something to discuss.