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Oh, but that wouldn't outweigh my point? Majin Buu gets defeated and then Piccolo is surprised that Base Gotenks gets wrecked so easily. We have somewhat of an inconsistency when Videl is surprised that Piccolo gets defeated so easily after this point, but it's Videl. The Super anime really...

I don’t see your point? Are you talking the anime?

It doesn't seem likely. If Shin's psychic abilities were all that great, he wouldn't be so nervous against Pui Pui and Yakon. I think both fighters can individually take out Kaioshin by themselves.

Indeed, the burst seems to have allowed him to remember Gohan's similar burst of power.

@GreatSaiyaman123 what’s suggests the boys are stronger than the Cell Jrs? The idea that Kaioshin can jump in and save poor old Base Goku seems absurd to me when looking at that scene. I can’t agree with that logic so I’ll have to move on from that topic with you and ahill. Kaioshin is...

Exactly

No, and it's even backed up by Super anime. Beerus wrecks Majin Buu and then fights Base Gotenks, yet Piccolo is shocked that even Gotenks can be made such a fool of. Base Gotenks > Majin Buu proves Base Gotenks power is more than just hype.

Reasons unknown.

@GreatSaiyaman123 Fair enough, you aren't suggesting the boys are superior to the Cell Jrs though, right? No, it's not a rare ability. Fighters have always been able to know how strong other opponents are just by watching them. We've had countless reactions of things like, "What speed!"...

It can't be. If you are witnessing someone moving 1/10th your speed, it is impossible to be afraid of them. Think about any time that's ever happened where a vastly faster fighter was terrified of a vastly slower fighter when watching them. It doesn't happen. Shin was not remembering the power...

He was in a state of panic and wasn’t thinking about Gohans immense power as stated later

Mmm never thought about it like that well not necessarily you can alter pre and post boys to suit your needs

Shin experienced Yakons speed and was terrified, there is no explaining that away.

@Goku9001 Hmm, yeah, you may be right about the 10x boost thing. I forgot about that issue. All hope is not lost though, but let's revisit that in a little. I think I found a pathway to further the discussion. So we have one major issue that's present to me right now. We have a hard cap on...

Gohan certainly cannot change into Super Saiyan 2 of his own will in the manga. Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 seems to be directly tied to his anger, he was angry enough to transform against Kibito, but not enough against Dabura.

What was that other thing I had? Base Teen Gohan > Base RoF Gohan > Piccolo

Hmm, I never thought about it like this and that's exactly what we see out Gohan in DBS Super Hero. So then Gohan would have a regular base state, which would be his Post Zeta Sword training level, which is the level that Goku and Gohan would be fusing at. Which makes things much more...

A varying Super Saiyan multiplier would surely fix quite a few issues. The Gero implications definitely seem to imply Super Saiyan is only like a 10x boost or so. The Freeza Saga suggests 50x, but it's possible Goku got a huge zenkai and we just didn't know about it? Goku's Super Saiyan...

@Goku9001 Yeah, I'm sure these topics get stale over time. You guys haven't taken a break at all? My goodness. I get bored staying in one spot too long. I doubt I'll be on Discord anytime soon, just looking to keep it pretty light here and there, not trying to go full bore anymore. I guess the...

Since we know Piccolo most definitely can't give Gohan trouble, Kibito even being suggested to be able to do so would be one in favor of Kibito. Why would a newer character be weaker than Piccolo, who is being relegated to what may be Android-ish level. There's zero evidence for Piccolo >...