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Sure. Goku was no longer a threat to Kid Buu at that point. Nothing contradicts the idea that Goku could kill Kid Buu with a Full Power blast.

Which is present throughout Gotenks' entire character. Base Gotenks isn't exclusively a gag.

Because the source material directly suggests that Goten wasn't too far off from Gohan but Gohan may have been much weaker prior to the Budokai. I can work with that. You'd have to take the claim seriously. It's a blatant power statement from Trunks and was never presented as a gag.

I have to look at GreatSaiyamans' example because it might be the case if true. My assumption would be that Buu followed Babidi's orders and beat Kaioshin to the brink of death so Babidi could watch him suffer.

I'd be willing to admit that Buu underestimated him for whatever reason but he doesn't have Piccolo's mind. Buuhan does and Gohan explicitly recognized a change in Buu's behavior through Piccolo. It's really not an improper inference. Both Buu and Goku acknowledge that they can't do anything...

Yes. Goku is discussing how Blue as a transformation is a power that exceeds the God form. This is explicitly conveyed through the Z Senshi's reactions who come to the conclusion that Blue is not Super Saiyan God but in fact, the next step above God. You are still sidestepping the issue here and...

The Viz makes it clear that Buu is just noting a change. It's Gotenks that got frustrated by his statement but Buu wasn't mocking him. The point is that Buutenks wasn't wrong because Goku and Elder Kaioshin agreed that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan both could not beat Buutenks. You are insinuating that...

Oh? I'll actually take a look at it then.

Buu didn't mock SSJ3 Gotenks during their fight until he was no longer a threat. Buutenks wouldn't be wrong there since both Goku and Elder Kaioshin seem to agree that SSJ3 Goku and Gohan were no match for him. I would agree that Buu seems concerned about a fusion between Goku and Vegeta/Gohan.

Well, time was the issue. Goku seemed to agree with Elder Kaioshin that they wouldn't have the time needed to pull it off.

Nah. Would've been really anticlimactic compared to what we got.

Why would that be relevant for a successful fusion for Gotenks? Base Gogeta isn't a gag just because Goku and Vegeta failed their fusion in Broly.

I think the fact that SSJ3 Goku even believes he has a shot in defeating him even after fighting him means that Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu where Goku wanted nothing to do with him unless he fused with Vegeta.

Why is Base Gotenks a gag and SSJ/SSJ3 Gotenks are not? Gotenks' entire character was a gag. SSJ Gotenks immediately defused upon reaching Fat Buu, SSJ Gotenks was played up as a gag when he tries to be dramatic against Super Buu, SSJ3 Gotenks when he plays volleyball with Piccolo, and SSJ3...

It's still hard for me to place the kids that far away from Teen Gohan and Base Gotenks (Post) > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) is explicitly stated but I like the list. I'm going to have to take a look at it again whenever I want to do a power levels list.

The context is very clear. Elder Kaioshin compares Goku and Vegeta to every possible combination including Gohan and states that fusion as a result of two of the three strongest masters + rivalry i.e Vegetto is the strongest. That's not an interpretive issue. The comparison is embedded in Elder...

You guys are looking too much into it. It's not a powerscaling feat. It's just Buu and Babidi toying with Kaioshin.

I think the way Elder Kaioshin phrases it seems like he's not certain but he still strongly believes that Super Saiyan is unnecessary. The manga certainly implies a greater gap since Elder Kaioshin claims "the potara is that incredible" or something along those lines and that's omitted from the...

Sure. All I'm saying is the narrative acknowledges how a huge gap can drastically alter the result of the fusion. Just because it does not make sense to you doesn't mean we just discard the evidence. Edit: Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that Super Gogeta would lose. I don't think...

You are sidestepping the issue. Since Super Saiyan Goku was elevated to the level of God and there is evidence that guarantees that he did not have god ki at that point in time, then that means that Goku's own Super Saiyan form was on the level of God. This isn't complicated. I think it's pretty...