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I also always found a little weird that Cell thought he had killed Gohan with that attack when using the same level he fought Goku. I mean, he implied pretty much Gohan is > Goku by saying Goku wasn't totally bluffing... But then how come he thinks he can kill Gohan in an instant when that power...

This one's also very possible.

Yeah I think the way Goku says makes it seem like he was counting with Gohan's enraged powers all along... Not something he suddenly believed, but something he knew from the start Gohan had to tap for Cell to be defeated. When Goku goes unharmed after Cell's full speed attack, he also states he...

I think saying "in speed, AT LEAST" shows he's clearly separating speed from power. It isn't the same as Freeza.... Ok he only mentioned speed but someone can argue because it was the focus of the statement since he dodged. But here, Cell singled out speed with the at least. That means speed is...

Well, part 1 aside, then you'll be discussing the Freeza saga ignoring numbers from the very inventor who you are discussing about. AT can make mistakes, but a mistake for example is the "Vegeta is close to 20k" which was later corrected. This one shows that fights can go different routes with...

You think yours is logical. That's the difference. You also don't use the 24k ~ 18k spacing for the Freeza arc because you feel the gaps should another way. But that's based off your feelings... Not portrayed in the story. I'm changing the number the way you are but in a more logical way...

Couldn't perfection be seen, or perceived, by Cell, as not losing to anyone no matter what, rather than having huge feats of doing anything destructive - wise ?

Your logic ignore numbers straight for the manga. You say "it's super, it's official, yet you're ignoring even then original manga because you think it flows better". So saying it's a no contest for the SSJ multiplier to be 59x because it's displayed in a guidebook but ignore some numbers from...

Nah, JP manga has it like Herms', I checked.

Was it written by Toriyama? Do you have SSJ2 as 2x? I mean, I had SSJ as 40x already, what big difference does it make? Heck, a 40x multiplier would make sense in the Freeza saga with Freeza at 120,000,000 lulz Freeza 120,000,000 Goku 3,000,000 --- SSJ 120,000,000 Except it'd need to be...

Fuck super lulz

the grade 3 multiplier bigger too, I overlooked that. It's 4x, not 3x considering SSJ Trunks as a 5 in the list above. So if let's say SSJ future Trunks (vs semi cell) is a 5 which is fair (between initial Semi Cell and FP semi Cell), the multiplier would be 4x for grade 3, which reduces how...

Well, they saw surpassing SSJ as the way, but it seems training in the RoSaT was just that good. I mean, Vegeta with SSJ alone could kill all 3 androids with minimum effort... That implies the need to surpass the SSJ, for the focus such was given, wasn't treated so well in terms of power scaling...

Agreed with Boo being more complex and having more layers. Tho it could be argued Cell showed different traits as he was developing himself I think. At first he seemed cautious and calculator, since he knew he was still weak and took a more cautious approach like Piccolo... As Semi Cell he still...

Or do you find him kinda overrated as a villain?

Yeah. We don't know how much time passed. Gohan had already improved significantly having already mastered the SSJ, he noticed Goku was meditating for days there, rather than the whole time, which implies he did things before it... And considering how big their overall gains were, I don't think...

True enough. But at least when Gohan went SSJ2, Cell was seen sweating, in awe and nervous. There could be more room for a fake confidence there.

Which is also weird that for catching Gohan in a position he'd damage him rendering his arms useless to use as defense, he tricked him by drawing his attention with Freeza's beams, all of which Gohan dodged, which may imply he couldn't walk right through Gohan and do that. So it's strange either...

Yeah, it was a weird scene for sure

Don't those examples specially show speed can be its own thing regardless of the power?