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Yes, but speed was the highlighted attribute. On the same token, if he noticed Gohan as a speedy guy, mentioning it, it'd make sense that in spite of him thinking his power was enough to damage Gohan, Gohan's speed scaled higher than his sensible power... And saw that power went along with it...

Depends. I think it's possible to have the SSJG3 boost as a not outrageous thing. If you think Goku before getting any significant power up and yet surpassing Semi Cell in the RoSaT, then a 10x boost would be warranted... But it doesn't mesh well with buff Cell getting smashed by Gohan in one...

True. It could be. But wouldn't it be strange for Cell to think he'd kill Gohan instantly if he, even tho he obviously underestimated Gohan as when they aren't fighting, many times their powers sensing seem off, that he'd think he'd kill Gohan instantly. Even underestimating from sensing a power...

I think Shin takes it as I think he's ~ CGs MSSJ Goku.

I'd say Cell's speed post increase ought to be on par with Gohan's though. Cell assessed Gohan's speed and increased it enough to catch him. Cell thought "what a quick brat" so he seemed to think Gohan had a disproportionately speed, probably... And upon seeing he was tough by taking no damage...

Yes, there's that too. Tho the squeezing hug was also done when he distracted Gohan using Freeza's beams so he could catch him more effectively. But yeah, kicking Gohan like that seemed assertive.

18 1 Base Kids 1 Piccolo 1.1 -- weakened -- 0.8 Light Grenade 1.5 Imperfect Cell 2.2 Semi Perfect Cell 4.4 -- FP 5.5 Super Vegeta 8.2 Perfect Cell 16.4 50% Goku 20 SSJ CGs Vegeta/Trunks : 25 -- base : 1

More like "desire to kill", which was the word. Lack of desire to kill is... Not wanting it. Intent as I worded could be taken differently yeah, but desire is something deeper.

What was the extent of the speed increase vs Gohan in your opinion? Did Gohan, maybe, held the same speed advantage vs Cell as Cell vs did Goku? Maybe a little more as Goku could still hit Cell sometimes? And was there a power up to complement the speed increase post it? I think there may very...

Well, it seems needed for you, I think my gaps there does justice to all that's needed.

I agree pretty much. I'd add one more though, which is the one he had masking his chi which was read by #16 as < Super Vegeta. That was the Cell labeled as warm up... Then the Cell who kicked Vegeta's ass was the one who said "gonna be a little bit serious"... And the one I assume fought Goku...

Yes but the main point is about the not intent to kill.

Yes but isn't calm opposed to ruthless? Seems like SSJ has what they thought (and somewhat true later on) that restless and will to kill.

Chapter: 279 (DBZ 85), P14.1 Context: as Goku prepares to fight Recoom Vegeta: “Th-this really is strange…He’s oddly calm…Doesn’t he know his opponent’s true strength?...I can’t feel any desire to kill from him at all…” Right after this, Vegeta wonders if Goku is the SSJ!!! If he felt no...

About 1.25x to me.

Haha if someone wants I can do it, but I'd rather a mod do it since generally mods organize it. Only did it on neoseeker because due to lack of participation in former years, mods didn't seem it much as necessary, but I still did it together with Sgt. Martin and ERM, they did it as much as me.

Thanks everyone and thanks Mystic, you were a great staff member and I respect you a lot. You've done an incredible job throughout those years and you've been one of the biggest contributors of the forum, ever. You're as tight to Zeta as one can be. I really like you and wish you good things...

Sure P, you live with Toriyama after all.

Well, out of Universe I agree there was a change of heart regarding Shin. It's not like Toriyama had a terrible memory to not even remember Shin seeing SSJ2 a couple chapters ago, he had Shin mentioning it in the Yakon fight A change of direction seems more plausible. Given that, my in-universe...

Even if he had amnesia, that doesn't mean he will react differently to a power way below the way he sensed before. Unless he had amnesia and a terrible paranoia that made little things into nightmares, that would sound right.