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Really? That's surprising. In my scenario I have Piccolo achieving around 30% of his power he reached in the Androids Saga. That isn't far enough way? Sheesh!

Ok, I usually go with Freeza's initial true form doubling his 3rd Form power. But I can consider a 1.5x increase and see how it goes. 3rd Form Freeza 2,500,000 Vegeta 3,500,000 Freeza 3,750,000 Let me see how it plays out. For me, I like Freeza doubling up because his power-up is absolutely...

Well you know me. My original stance for years has been that he hasn't achieved it in the Future timeline. But I've just recently had a change of heart. You know what's better than Vegeta not achieving Super Saiyan? Vegeta achieving Super Saiyan! Lol This makes the narrative so much more fun...

Yeah. That's where I officially stand. I have Super Vegetto about double Buuhan. I don't think any more than that is necessary.

Ok perfect for me. So Gohan sensed Vegeta vs Androids. That should mean Gohan 2 Arms > Future Vegeta. Agreed or disagree? Yes, a new foe appears that forces them to go beyond. But instead of truly going beyond, they bring out all of it's potential and it's substantial. MSSJ is always a...

Let's clash narratives and see who has the best handle on things. For me, I prefer to have immensely strong Kaioshins. Kibito spoke about SSJ2 Gohan as he was powerful, but not in a way he didn't think a Kaioshin to be that level. South Kaioshin is a freakin boss. The more powerful we can make...

Hmmm. I used to think like that, having clean fusion boosts sure would be nice. But with the introduction of Super, that seems less important to me. It seems we've reached a consensus that fusion boosts are exponential. If that's the case, there's no need to find a perfect fusion boost number...

Good point. So is that your final answer? Piccolo and Future Vegeta fought Android 17 and 18 and were not sensed by Gohan? Yeah, there's only a handful of power scaling things I really don't like in the manga and that's one of them. We can rationalize that Trunks is tired and all that, but it's...

I hear you, completely avoiding the Future Saga and 2 Arm Gohan is a wise choice. We have plenty of surrounding evidence to make some educated guesses though.

Yeah, I'd agree. With that translation, someone who has Gokhan >> Buuhan wouldn't draw much opposition from me. But as long as Gokhan can confidently beat Buutenks, like an 88% gap would assure. I think we are fine. Most of the fandom is going to want to have Vegetto > Gokhan, so Gokhan does...

@ahill1 Can you put it in a translator. Also can you do the line Perfect Cell tells to Trunks about bringing out more of his power right before he leaves after defeating Grade 3 Trunks

Great point. And this allows us to make Future Vegeta weak enough to make 2 arm Gohan above him while also not having to force Future Vegeta to lose power to do so. I like it. Damn, the Future Saga is so much improved with Vegeta being a SSJ, I have to admit. And it has anime and movie support...

Yeah. But when in doubt, the anime translations are better than Herms imo. So long as they aren't translating literal anime filler. I don't think this is a filler line here though.

Yeah, I like this. Super Saiyan helps for sure. I'm with it.

I can agree with this. I already had Trunks superior by quite a margin, but having Trunks and Goku a full tier above is fine too. Also, Vegeta is under the assumption Goku and Freeza are dead, perhaps his gains aren't as substantial. If we have him matching Namek Goku by the Mecha Freeza...

Something like... Goku- But do I need SSJ Elder Kai- You should just be enough not to. 88% is literally perfect tier for this line.

Ah, I think you are right. He senses Goku, then gives a reading, then is shocked by the reading. I'm wrong here then. Sick Goku is the limit. His reading seems to be able to determine that Vegeta > Sick Goku, but there's diminishing returns here. So it's kind of like something like this...

Well, this gets into the woods a bit. First you have to ask yourself a number of questions, but there is indeed quite some variety in what you come up with here. I've always doubled up everyone essentially. Krillen, Vegeta, Goku all get 2x increases for the Mecha Freeza Saga for me. Piccolo...

I think Dodoria is suffering from fear quite a bit, I mean, that fight is nothing. Dodoria is a guy who's had a superiority complex and is used to it for years and he's completely broken inside of the idea of Vegeta being stronger. Hmm, we see this in real life. The great champ who's on top of...

Yes, I really think this is the way. Think about it narratively. For 2 Arm Gohan to fight the Androids, it seems logical he'd be stronger than Future Vegeta. He's doesn't need to be tremendously stronger of course, but this is the better option then him not being stronger. We are in a highly...