18 vs Vegeta Discussion

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Evil Vegeta

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How strong does everyone think Vegeta's blast was?

She said his previous blast wasn't anywhere near his all, but actually both complimented and insulted him after taking the next one directly. I'm not so sure he had any other special attacks up his sleeve at that point.
 

p123

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I don't think that was a massive powered up attack, but it was as powerful as it gets for as quick as it was. He followed up his attack beautifully and 18, OH SO SUPERIOR 18, did not have the chance to get out of the way. I guess Vegeta is just that much better of a fighter if he can trick her with such a MASSIVE POWER DISADVANTAGE!
 

Pyro

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You can see right from the very first panel of their fight that Vegeta clearly wasn't expecting #18 to be as strong as she was. He was probably thinking she'd be marginally stronger than #20 at best, but whatever. He's being pushed back by her frantic assault, clearly being overwhelmed, and she's emotionless per usual. When he grabs her arm and tosses her into the rock cliff, she's still completely unfazed, and then she dodges and blocks an attack from him before he gets a single punch in to separate them.

I believe that's when they both admit they've been taking it easy on each other. If that's round 1, #18 definitely took it by having Vegeta overwhelmed for the majority of it apart from two attacks that he managed to land on her, both of which resulted in zilch for his cause. Also, and this may be incredibly minor, look at when they land after that last punch by Vegeta: #18 lands gracefully on her feet while Vegeta is on one knee. Dunno if that means anything, but it's a small detail I caught rereading the chapter.

Round 2 starts with Vegeta's blast to the truck being easily dodged. #18's headbutt sends Vegeta reeling a few feet (very similar to when he let #19 punch him) and leaves him bloodied and ticked off. His punch to her gut bends her over (yeah buddy!), but ultimately results in little reaction from her. On the contrary, when she knees him in the gut, he's wide-eyed and doubled over in pain and shock—very clear difference in their attack strengths there. Vegeta certainly loses this round as well.

Round 3 starts after everyone arrives and Vegeta is in fairly bad shape. He's playing it off because he's Vegeta, but you can see with your own eyes that he's roughed up while #18 is sitting pretty. However, when the fight restarts, while #18 takes the initial lead, Vegeta turns it around quickly by tossing her into the rocks and blasting her with his palm semen stream. When she comes out unscathed, Vegeta moves in and it turns into a melee brawl, which she quickly comes out on top of by breaking his goddamn arm. Trunks tries to interfere and his sword is blocked and broken by #18's forearm (and she doesn't look pissed, dunno where that came from). With everyone else interfering, Vegeta is tossed/slammed into Trunks, which KO's Trunks yet Vegeta manages to play a little possum to attempt to hit #18 with a point-blank blast...which she dodges and punches him down again. He shows extreme defiance and yet against tries to stand, but she knees him in the ribs at least twice and he finally regresses back to Base, KO'd. Round 3 was the closest somehow, yet #18 did the most damage in this round, if that makes sense.

Vegeta vs. #18 Round 1 ~< Vegeta vs. #18 Round 2 < Vegeta vs. #18 Round 3, in terms of how close they appear IMO.
 

Evil Vegeta

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Looking back at it, #18 blocked all of his attacks when he got serious and was fighting "equally" with her. Seems like he got no hits in after landing that blast.

I don't think she moved because she knew the blast wasn't a threat. She nonchalantly looks up as it's coming towards her and is standing up afterwards. We already know how she'd get if a blast actually was powerful enough to fuck her up. #18 clowned Vegeta towards the end badly. Made him look like a complete joke. I doubt it was because he quickly lost all of his stamina when we're told it was a bit by bit process, anyway.

Vegeta seemed to get agitated quite a bit throughout the fight with the non-existent damage he was doing, too.
 

p123

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There are 4 rounds of action KP. I think you guys are overplaying 18 here.

I think Vegeta takes Round 1 and Round 3.

She is surprised that Vegeta's blast is on top of her that quickly in Round 3.
 

Pyro

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p123 said:
There are 4 rounds of action KP. I think you guys are overplaying 18 here.

I think Vegeta takes Round 1 and Round 3.

She is surprised that Vegeta's blast is on top of her that quickly in Round 3.
I only counted 3 rounds. The first round ends when they separate and talk about holding back. The second round ends before everyone arrives. The third round is basically everything after the whole group shows up.

I don't think #18 is being overplayed. She's in control for 98% of the fight. The only time Vegeta gets anything in is a couple hits in the first two rounds, besides his blast which did shit all, and then he's owned. He can't inflict any damage on her whatsoever. Her gut move affects him much more than his did to her. She's not surprised about his blast, bro. She acts nonchalant the whole time.
 

p123

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Round 1 - Vegeta and 18 Holding Back
Round 2- 18 takes the lead.
Round 3- Group Arrives, Vegeta finishes off with the blast
Round 4- Melee combat, Vegeta's stamina drops


There are four times when there are battles and significant pauses in the fight. Hence, four rounds.

In Rounds 1 and 3, she is absolutely not in control of the fight. She is losing. 10-9 Vegeta both rounds.
 

Void

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p123 said:
She is surprised that Vegeta's blast is on top of her that quickly in Round 3.

IV9EyAn.png


The blast still did nothing to her.
 

p123

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Agreed, just cosmetic damage, but he still won the round.
 

SSJ2

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Big Poppa Pump said:
Trunks tries to interfere and his sword is blocked and broken by #18's forearm (and she doesn't look pissed, dunno where that came from).

888l1jJ.jpg


She definitely doesn't look happy.
 

p123

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Yea, her face is more serious. I think Trunks is smart guys. He can clearly tell how fast 18 is moving. But when he attacks her, he's shocked.

18 (Tanking Trunks) >> 18 (Fighting Vegeta)
 

ahill1

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p123 said:
Well, didn't she say she wasn't anywhere close to her max? She never said she was going to go all out. Just that she was holding back massively.
That's the dialogue:

DBZ chap: 159
Context: #18 talks about not giving her all;
Vegeta: "In that case, don't hold back. You'd better give me your best while you can, or you'll regret it later."
#18: "Well then, I will."


Doesn't that imply she would no longer hold back?
 

p123

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Yep, yet her facial expressions and overall reactions suggest strongly that she did hold back even so. The only time she gets that look in her eye is when Trunks is attacking her.

The only way to make all of this work is to have it like this...

18 (Full Effort) > 18 (Rounds 2-4 vs Vegeta) >= Vegeta (All Out) > 18 (Holding Back) >= Vegeta (Holding Back)
 

ahill1

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p123 said:
Yep, yet her facial expressions and overall reactions suggest strongly that she did hold back even so. The only time she gets that look in her eye is when Trunks is attacking her.

The only way to make all of this work is to have it like this...

18 (Full Effort) > 18 (Rounds 2-4 vs Vegeta) >= Vegeta (All Out) > 18 (Holding Back) >= Vegeta (Holding Back)

She also had that nonchalant expression against Mighty Mask too, didn't she?

Well, her holding back is a good way to explain it, but don't you think we can also conclude #18 (rounds 2 and 4) >> Vegeta? Vegeta didn't see to do any damage to her whatsoever.

Also, talking about Mighty Mask, found something:

CYUKPPN.png


That would imply for sure 18 > Vegeta, right? :ladd
 

SSJ2

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Yeah, but it's so vague it doesn't mean much. Although 18 vs kids is a good indicator of serious 18 based on her facial expressions. It reminds me of her look when Trunks attacked her.
 

Pyro

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p123 said:
Round 1 - Vegeta and 18 Holding Back
Round 2- 18 takes the lead.
Round 3- Group Arrives, Vegeta finishes off with the blast
Round 4- Melee combat, Vegeta's stamina drops


There are four times when there are battles and significant pauses in the fight. Hence, four rounds.

In Rounds 1 and 3, she is absolutely not in control of the fight. She is losing. 10-9 Vegeta both rounds.
I disagree, man. Not gonna get into round quantity anymore (because I see and agree with there being 4), but Vegeta is definitely overwhelmed at first. He's pushed back, gritting his teeth, very focused game face. He narrowly dodges #18's punch that hits the rocks. He's on the defensive for most of the fight here. How is this a win for him?

Vegeta's blast is dodged. #18's headbutt does visible damage to Vegeta. His gut punch barely registers on #18's radar. Her knee visibly stuns him, and it takes him a moment to recover. How is this a win for him?

Vegeta is clearly getting annoyed now with his wider eyes and more furious movement speed. I see what you mean about his big blast since #18's got a little shock symbol in front of her face when she sees it, but still, it doesn't really prove anything. In fact, it makes her look more impressive if she wasn't able to be completely on guard for it yet she basically tanked it. I guess you could argue he won that round since he had the most offense.

With the fighting resuming, #18 is back in control. Vegeta can't land a single hit, and he is slowly batted back by #18's attacks. Trunks interfering only seemed to make things worse. There was no redemption at this point.

#18 was pretty much always in control by virtue of being unaffected by Vegeta's attacks. It's only really that one quick flurry before she tanks his blast that he's able to take the lead. :wat
 

p123

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You are confusing who is stronger, with who is wining rounds. Sometimes the better fighter loses the round.

Round 1, Vegeta is clearly a bit outmatched, but he matches her and out wits her. He wins this round for sure, but she has proven her strength.
 

Pyro

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One round at best, but I don't think we're going to agree here.
 

ahill1

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I don't think you can say Vegeta won those rounds when #18 is prerty nonchalant and doesn't even look bothered by Vegeta's attack. It's like saying Mummy-kun was initially winning against Goku despite this latter taking all of his attacks without any damage.
 
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