3m Number Destroyed

[sei'taer]

I've argued for years that the 3,000,000 number cannot work. There's just too many people between form 2 furiza's (initial) one million plus and Goku (initial) to fit in the numbers for the kind of gaps we witnessed.

You either have to use gaps that are impossibly small to make the numbers fit, or you have to go above three million.

 

[Papasmurf]

4 million at minimum is needed for the gaps presented imo

 

[Kyo]

Bro you debated this with CC before and he debunked you out of Zeta for like 2 years

link

How about this?

Freeza 2nd form (initial) - 1.060.000
Freeza 2nd form (powered up) - 1.200.000
Piccolo (weighted) - 1.250.000
Freeza 2nd form (full power) - 1.350.000
Piccolo (unweighted) - 1.400.000
Freeza 3rd form - 1.750.000
Freeza 4th form (initial) - 2.100.000
Vegeta - 2.000.000
Freeza 4th form (speed up) - 2.400.000
Goku (initial) - 2.400.000
Goku (full power) - 3.000.000
Freeza (no hands) - 3.200.000

4th form Freeza over Vegeta alone screws everything up, even if we were to accept every tiny gap before then (I wouldn't)

How about

Freeza [initial] 1,060,000
--power up 1,200,000
-- FP 1,400,000

Piccolo (weights) 1,250,000
-- non weights 1,500,000

Freeza [3rd state] 1,850,000

Vegeta (Zenkai) 2,400,000

Freeza final form initially 2,650,000
-- speed up 3,200,000

Goku 3,000,000

You stopped short of Goku's full power

 

[FeatsofPower]

Well since GSM seems incapable of backing up his claim I'll try to explain what I remember. I think I was pushing pretty hard some of my A>B logic and A>B is larger than C>D means that there are numerical requirements to making those things work and he got mad and leveled a Daizneshuu/Kaboom level argument saying something like you are being crazy for thinking there is a right and wrong and how dare you think you can apply logic to power levels and all that kind of stuff. I know a got into another fight like that over Vegeta vs Jeice as well.

I never found this argument convincing. There's simple logical chains that we develop that squeeze and limit other possibilities.

(Goku > Ginyu Force) > (Reecome > Vegeta) is good logic.

If Ginyu Force is 60-66% of Goku, then Vegeta is significantly closer. CC had problems with me putting such confidence behind a claim like that but it's good logic and these gap comparisons have ruled the day since I've started pushing them. It's good logic. CC was wrong then and he's wrong now.

 

[ahill1]

link


4th form Freeza over Vegeta alone screws everything up, even if we were to accept every tiny gap before then (I wouldn't)


You stopped short of Goku's full power

You mean full power Goku when Freeza goes no hands? Nah, I believe Goku used a basic Kaioken there.

 

[Hector]

4th form Freeza over Vegeta alone screws everything up, even if we were to accept every tiny gap before then (I wouldn't)

Be more specific.

 

[FeatsofPower]

You mean full power Goku when Freeza goes no hands? Nah, I believe Goku used a basic Kaioken there.

Now Kaioken is his full power? Goku is using full power not Kaioken.

 

[Kyo]

You mean full power Goku when Freeza goes no hands? Nah, I believe Goku used a basic Kaioken there.

The colored release doesn’t show him using Kaioken there

Be more specific.

No

 

[ahill1]

The colored release doesn’t show him using Kaioken there



No

Ok and the colored release was made.by Shueisha, guys in the same position the ones who made the numbers for the Daizenshuu.

 

[Kyo]

And if the numbers in the Daizenshuu looked good then nobody would bother to dispute them.
There’s no reason to have Goku using Kaioken there, it’s never stated or implied.

 

[ahill1]

And if the numbers in the Daizenshuu looked good then nobody would bother to dispute them.
There’s no reason to have Goku using Kaioken there, it’s never stated or implied.

And if a colored release by Shueisha were a strong point, then the 3M number should be argued to stand.

 

[Hector]

I've argued for years that the 3,000,000 number cannot work. There's just too many people between form 2 furiza's (initial) one million plus and Goku (initial) to fit in the numbers for the kind of gaps we witnessed.

You either have to use gaps that are impossibly small to make the numbers fit, or you have to go above three million.

Another solution is to accept 1 million was his full power in his second form.

 

[sei'taer]

The aura is ridiculously inconsistent during the fight to hide him using the Kaio-ken.

Another solution is to accept 1 million was his full power in his second form.

He clearly powers up afterward though.

You have furiza (1,000,000+). Then after gohan's attack Furiza powers up. Then piccolo shows up stronger than powered up furiza. Then form 3 furiza powers up to a level that Piccolo can't even react to his attacks. Then form 4 initial they can't even see them.

There's no way that's a 3x gap.

 

[Hector]

He clearly powers up afterward though.

You have furiza (1,000,000+). Then after gohan's attack Furiza powers up. Then piccolo shows up stronger than powered up furiza. Then form 3 furiza powers up to a level that Piccolo can't even react to his attacks. Then form 4 initial they can't even see them.

There's no way that's a 3x gap.

Depends on how you view the statement. When a suppressed Freeza said to Nail his power was 530.000, obviously he was referring to his full power. I don't see why he had to mean something different when he said his power was 1 million.

 

[Pyro]

Depends on how you view the statement. When a suppressed Freeza said to Nail his power was 530.000, obviously he was referring to his full power. I don't see why he had to mean something different when he said his power was 1 million.

He clearly said his power would be "over" 1,000,000.

Chapter: 296 (DBZ 102), P9.1-2
Freeza: "At any rate, my power is excessive. Perhaps I've overdone it... Kukkukku... Incidentally, if [my strength] were put into battle power, it would be over 1,000,000, surely..."

You'd have to have evidence of him being inaccurate.

 

[Hector]

He clearly said his power would be "over" 1,000,000.

Chapter: 296 (DBZ 102), P9.1-2
Freeza: "At any rate, my power is excessive. Perhaps I've overdone it... Kukkukku... Incidentally, if [my strength] were put into battle power, it would be over 1,000,000, surely..."

You'd have to have evidence of him being inaccurate.

My point is 1.060.000 could be his full power.

 

[ahill1]

The diff is that in his first form Freeza highlighted the fact his FULL power was 530k, but that he'd take lightly on Nail. Here he didn't specify that, he said if his strength were put into numbers, it'd be surely over a million. The standard assumption is that such is in regards to his current power. Even moreso when the further power ups came as a surprise to the readers and the characters... no one assumed he could go further it.

With Nail it was more like "my FP is 530k... don't worry tho, I won't go all out on you"

Here it's "if it were put into numbers, it'd be > 1M"

With the second statement being made specifically after the powers they sensed from him. Not making a hypothesis of what he could achieve. And then his power ups were like "what, can he control his BP?"... and then "is there no limit for his powers??". These statements would sound really off if AT had already established a limit for 2nd form Freeza. He didn't. That was his initial power.

 

[Pyro]

My point is 1.060.000 could be his full power.

So he's talking about a hypothetical full power while describing his current power? You're tripping.

 

[PFM18]

Bro you debated this with CC before and he debunked you out of Zeta for like 2 years

lol

 

[Hector]

So he's talking about a hypothetical full power while describing his current power? You're tripping.

Didn't he do so against Nail? Unless you think 530.000 was his suppressed power in his first form.