ahill1's DBZ final power levels

[ahill1]

Why would an increase in effort not translate into an increase in power? You'd better be arguing that Nappa is 4,000 then boi.

Well, Raditz could also hold back in effort and increase the strength of his attacks whenever he wants, despite not being able to control his battle power:

This seems like you/they are just grasping to try to make the 150 million number work. Fuck the Daizenshuu, it has no relevance for battle powers.

I opted by the 3 millions number simply by keeping things simpler, but I can agree that the number is unlilely.


Where do you have Freeza final form (initial)? At Vegeta's power?

 

[p123]

Hey hey my friend, still fighting the good fight I see? Yes, IIRC, no one has really mapped out the Raditz Saga levels without scouter logic. From my old memory, I think Raditz displayed something like 3 or 4 powers.

 

[ahill1]

Hey hey my friend, still fighting the good fight I see? Yes, IIRC, no one has really mapped out the Raditz Saga levels without scouter logic. From my old memory, I think Raditz displayed something like 3 or 4 powers.

Glad you commented, P

Yeah, I just followed the scouter numbers and didn't bother giving suppressed levels or so. But Raditz, even though without managing to actively control his battle power, has showed varied levels of effort. His initial level is already a good chunk superior to Goku and Piccolo, enough that the two want a fighting in group and the victory still isn't ensured. After the first attack, Picc and Goku realized the hole is even deeper and that Raditz is pretty much in a different dimension, enough to make Goku desperately want to grab his brother's tail and Piccolo shows his special technique.

I don't know if Raditz increased his power when blocking Goku's KMHMH, IIRC Goku was also surprised at this feat, so maybe that was him showing his full power?

Something like this then?

Piccolo ~ 98
Son Goku ~ 100
Raditz (initial) ~ 120~125
Raditz (fighting Goku) ~ 150~160
Goku's KMHMH - 150~160
Raditz (blocking the KMHMH, full power) - 180~200

 

[p123]

I remember the feats being pretty severe.

Raditz completely tanks Piccolo's blast. And then Raditz one shots Goku.

Then, they take off their weights and get a 1.33 boost or so only for Raditz to be so fast they lose track of him.

I'm very rust and don't have the time, but include the weights and all of that. Do a thorough break down of all Raditz power levels would you? No one ever looks at it under a microscope because of the scouter numbers, but you should do it. Forget about the actual numbers they say and just go by what is shown. I wait patiently...

 

[ahill1]

Well I'll still use the 1.25x boost for the weights, as it doesn't seem to conflict with we are showed.

Initial Raditz can pretty much speedblitz and oneshot weighted Goku:

He seems to be not even trying to perform this feat. Goku is writhing in pain and can barely move. At least a 1.5x gap between initial Raditz and weighted Goku, probably even more.

Goku also doesn't want a direct fight against him, being soon in bringing up his weakness:

However, joining forces with Piccolo might be able to allow them to defeat Raditz in a straight fight. Even when not attacking by surprise, they are somewhat confident that a team work might be able to do it:

So maybe Raditz (initial) = 1.25~1.3x > Goku and Piccolo unweighted? He doesn't seem to be worlds above them considering it.

However, Raditz wasn't exerting himself at that moment, and his first attack was already enough to make both Goku and Piccolo ***** on their pants:

Piccolo even said he [Raditz] showed no power like this before:

And it also aggravated Goku's will to grab the Saiyan's tail.

So, both Goku and Piccolo were badly speed blitzed and couldn't do anything unless rely on special techniques.

Raditz also noted he'd gradually increase the power of his attacks:

And the next assault was already enough to let Piccolo armless.

While Piccolo charges his Light of Death, Goku had to fight Raditz head on and maybe he got a resolve boost or something, because he was still able to impress his brother, who called him persistent:

Later on, he probably showed even more of his powers when blocking Goku's KMHMH, with this latter saying "what's he made of?"

Piccolo still believed his Light of Death could take Raditz out, after seeing him tanking Goku's KMHMH. But, Raditz still dodged it, flabbergasting Piccolo, who couldn't believed someone could dodge that. Raditz (dodging Piccolo's SBC) was finally his full power imo:

So, all in all:

Raditz (full power/dodging Piccolo's SBC) >> Raditz (blocking Goku's KMHMH) >> Goku's KMHMH ~ Raditz (2nd increase of effort) > Raditz (1st increase of effort) >> Raditz (initial) >> Goku and Piccolo >> Goku and Piccolo weighted

 

[p123]

I don't think the dodging and blocking really require increase of power, fighters are constantly surprised at the ability of their superior foes all the time. But you could be right.

First one I want to concentrate on is Unweighted Piccolo and Goku vs Initial Raditz. It's interesting to see that Goku thinks it will be a good fight. Does Piccolo offer any comment? Doesn't Piccolo suggest that if they team up they have a chance in the first place?

I find this very interesting because we only have one other case where 2 on 1 is feasible. Zarbon and Dodoria are supposed to be able to take out Vegeta if they fought together. Which is very interesting considering how badly Vegeta outclassed them.

It doesn't appear that Goku and Piccolo winning is a certainty here. It is going to be a rough battle.

How do we think 2 Vegeta's would fare against Reecome? Perhaps this is somewhat of a similar case?

 

[ahill1]

I don't think the dodging and blocking really require increase of power, fighters are constantly surprised at the ability of their superior foes all the time. But you could be right.

Yeah, Zarbon was also pretty surprised at Vegeta deflecting his blast, despite already knowing Vegeta's 24k battle power. But if so, I could say that for every of Piccolo's and Goku's surprises and that way we really wouldn't have Raditz showing more than one power.

First one I want to concentrate on is Unweighted Piccolo and Goku vs Initial Raditz. It's interesting to see that Goku thinks it will be a good fight. Does Piccolo offer any comment? Doesn't Piccolo suggest that if they team up they have a chance in the first place?

Piccolo knew that if Kuririn and Kame-sennin were to fight with Goku they would not have a chance and that him going would increase it slightly. Piccolo also called Raditz's strength a whole different level, emphasizing that if they join forces then they would have a slight chance of victory:

Chapter: 198 (DBZ 4), P10.2-5
Piccolo: “You should be well aware that his strength is on a whole different level. [ ] He’s not an opponent you or I could oppose on our own…but if we join forces, there’s a slight chance we could defeat him!”


That is, is just a possibility, the odds are still not in his favor.

Goku was also counting with an off guard attack at his brother, to which Piccolo pointed out it'd be pointless due to the scouter:

Said that, yeah, initial Raditz should already be decently above unweighted Goku and Piccolo. 1.33x seems fair enough imo, maybe even more. Weighted Piccolo and Goku are pretty much oneshot material to initial Raditz.

 

[p123]

Sounds about right. They are probably what 70% of Initial Raditz then? Maybe? If it's any lower than that, they don't have a chance in hell I would think.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Weighted Goku/Piccolo- 320
Initial Raditz- 850
Unweighted Goku/Piccolo- 400
FP Goku/Piccolo- 750
Serious Raditz- 1.000 and increasing
FP Raditz- 1.250

 

[p123]

That seems too much. And there is no FP Goku / PIccolo. There Unweighted Power is there FP.

I'd say that Initial Raditz has to be closer to 600

 

[ahill1]

Sounds about right. They are probably what 70% of Initial Raditz then? Maybe? If it's any lower than that, they don't have a chance in hell I would think.

1.4x is the most I'd go, considering a 60% gap is already oneshot material based on >60k Goku vs the Ginyus. Jheese and Butta fighting together had no chance in hell against ~60k Goku.

 

[p123]

Agreed. And I don't think anyone would think they had a chance. It is probably a couple steps above that. 70% is probably perfect, maybe 75%.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

That seems too much. And there is no FP Goku / PIccolo. There Unweighted Power is there FP.

I'd say that Initial Raditz has to be closer to 600

Didn't we agree, months ago, that the only way for BODB/BOZ gaps to make sense is my FP>Unweighted theory?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah and Ginyu also estimated that a 60k warrior could tool his troupe the way Jheese described to him, so a 2 vs 1 battle seems already hopeless when the gap is 66%. I think 75% is perfect, which also fits with Piccolo calling Raditz's strength a whole other level.

 

[p123]

Vegeta was able to manage some stuff against Reecome, although Vegeta was helpless against KK3 Goku. So somewhere in that region seems about right.

 

[p123]

I haven't really come on here in maybe a year or two all that seriously, so it definitely hasn't been months IIRC.

 

[ahill1]

I don't like the Freeza arc. The 150,000,000 number for Goku just doesn't seem right given all of the implied power ups/effort increases starting all the way back at Vegeta vs 4th form Freeza. It's all too tight.

Look at my Freeza saga power levels now. How do these look?

I also changed the subsequents power levels.

 

[SSJ2]

Looks like the list of the ahill that I know.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

A good power level list is never done.

 

[ahill1]

A good power level list is never done.

Mine is not?