Android 19 and 20 pre and post

[SSJ2]

He just answered that ahill, lmfao.

 

[ahill1]

He just answered that ahill, lmfao.

But he did not explain why he thinks Gero pre > 19 Post lol.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Gero pretty much repeats himself:

No.20: “I see…You seem to have achieved a truly considerable power-up. It’s a strange technique…This greatly surpasses our calculated figures…”
No.20: “However, this isn’t anything great enough to give us reason to fear. It’s still within a level which even No.19 is more than capable of defeating, and naturally that goes for myself as well…”

No.20: “…Kuh…! Th-this power up greatly exceeds my estimated data…Th-this is bad. Like this, No.19 will run out of energy before he steals any power…”

Seems more likely that he just miscalculated Super Saiyan altogether. In other words, when the Super Saiyan power-up exceeded his estimated data, he could no longer measure their power accurately. This goes along with the idea of him terribly miscalculating Super Saiyan Vegeta perfectly.

 

[ahill1]

Gero pretty much repeats himself:

No.20: “I see…You seem to have achieved a truly considerable power-up. It’s a strange technique…This greatly surpasses our calculated figures…”
No.20: “However, this isn’t anything great enough to give us reason to fear. It’s still within a level which even No.19 is more than capable of defeating, and naturally that goes for myself as well…”

No.20: “…Kuh…! Th-this power up greatly exceeds my estimated data…Th-this is bad. Like this, No.19 will run out of energy before he steals any power…”

Seems more likely that he just miscalculated Super Saiyan altogether. In other words, when the Super Saiyan power-up exceeded his estimated data, he could no longer measure their power accurately. This goes along with the idea of him terribly miscalculating Super Saiyan Vegeta perfectly.

But he knew Goku SSJ sick was within a level #19 could handle. I don't know how he would exactly know this if he could not accurately meassure his power.

 

[SSJ2]

He just answered that ahill, lmfao.

But he did not explain why he thinks Gero pre > 19 Post lol.

I'm not going to answer it for him, but I'd say because Gero is wary of his Androids becoming too powerful and killing him in the process. For example he said 19 was getting greedy and that he wanted to get the rest of the energy, it just seems to me that he wouldnt let 19 surpass himself.

 

[Tapion]

Android 19 pre absorptions being weaker than 1st form Freeza is the most ridiculous shit that i ever heard, sorry.
And i'm even more surprised that it is coming from a guy who i thought that supported Android 19(pre) > Yardrat Goku.

Now, my point of view about the androids is that Android 19 pre is roughly equal to Super Saiyan Yardrat Goku, and that Android 19 post greatly surpasses that level. I'd put him 60% as strong as Healthy Goku.

When Vegeta said that Android 19 wasn't as fearsome as he thought, it doesn't have to mean that he can't dominate Trunks. Trunks told them that the androids also killed Super Saiyan Vegeta - and Vegeta is obviously surprised and irritated with that. With Vegeta utterly dominating Android 19, then obvously the androids are not as fearsome as the rumours made out to Vegeta - because they weren't able to kill him.

 

[ahill1]

Android 19 pre absorptions being weaker than 1st form Freeza is the most ridiculous shit that i ever heard, sorry.
And i'm even more surprised that it is coming from a guy who i thought that supported Android 19(pre) > Yardrat Goku.

He was just kidding lol.

 

[DBZAOTA482]

#19:

• 80,000,000 (pre-energy absorption)
  160,000,000

#20:

• 90,000,000 (pre-energy absorption)
  120,000,000

Yes I'm one of those "Freeza > #19 and #20" people.

 

[Tapion]

Android 19 pre absorptions being weaker than 1st form Freeza is the most ridiculous shit that i ever heard, sorry.
And i'm even more surprised that it is coming from a guy who i thought that supported Android 19(pre) > Yardrat Goku.

He was just kidding lol.

Lol i think that i fell for it

I just edited my previous post with my point of view about the androids, check it out

 

[Evil Vegeta]

He was wrong. Gero never said Goku's power went up--he just repeated that it was greatly above his estimations.

 

[ahill1]

He was wrong. Gero never said Goku's power went up--he just repeated that it was greatly above his estimations.

And I doubt Gero would be that surprised if sick Goku (first reading) was already that stronger than 19.

 

[SSJ2]

Gero's scouter is clearly wack. After seeing Goku fuck up 19, a much stronger Vegeta comes around and Gero thinks he won't be any trouble for 19.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

We have no reason to believe the reading changed, though. Gero never said anything that would remotely imply it was any different. He could've just miscalculated Super Saiyan altogether. Absorbing Piccolo again would've resulted in him getting his face kicked in by Super Saiyan Vegeta, yet Gero thinks absorbing the same Piccolo again will give him the power to win. The dude is just horribly wrong at times.

 

[SSJ2]

Nobody implies Goku's power changing, aside from it going down, not up.

Yeah, the scouter is a tough issue. You can make an argument for it working, but it's a lot more difficult to prove than disregarding it for it's inaccuracies in my opinion.

 

[ahill1]

Android 19 pre absorptions being weaker than 1st form Freeza is the most ridiculous shit that i ever heard, sorry.
And i'm even more surprised that it is coming from a guy who i thought that supported Android 19(pre) > Yardrat Goku.

Now, my point of view about the androids is that Android 19 pre is roughly equal to Super Saiyan Yardrat Goku, and that Android 19 post greatly surpasses that level. I'd put him 60% as strong as Healthy Goku.

When Vegeta said that Android 19 wasn't as fearsome as he thought, it doesn't have to mean that he can't dominate Trunks. Trunks told them that the androids also killed Super Saiyan Vegeta - and Vegeta is obviously surprised and irritated with that. With Vegeta utterly dominating Android 19, then obvously the androids are not as fearsome as the rumours made out to Vegeta - because they weren't able to kill him.

I think Vegeta's quote implies #19 post is not that stronger than Mecha saga Trunks. I think it would be more understandable Vegeta compare 19's power with Mecha saga Trunks, and all he expected was that the Androids would be nightmares for his son.

Vegeta doesn't have an accurately gauge of his future self, and I'm sure Vegeta knew he was way stronger than his future self, since:

1- He knew his future self would not have the same motivation to train like him, even more with Goku dying;

2- He said he would not die against these Androids, implying he expected to be a lot stronger than his future self.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Nobody implies Goku's power changing, aside from it going down, not up.

Yeah, the scouter is a tough issue. You can make an argument for it working, but it's a lot more difficult to prove than disregarding it for it's inaccuracies in my opinion.

That's generally how I see it. I think it gives him a general understanding of their power in normal circumstances, but I think Super Saiyan completely changes things. He wasn't calculating for power anywhere close to that, so I could see the data painting an inaccurate picture of what he's really up against. Even while losing to Piccolo, Gero thinks it's impossible because he already absorbed his energy. He doesn't realize that Piccolo is really that strong until the fight is over.

 

[SSJ2]

Agreed. He does however say that he made many miscalculations, so it's possible that he built his scouter to scan people only weaker than himself. If they are too strong for the scouter it may give an incorrect reading. The counter to this is that the failed model 16 had a perfect scanner, so why would Gero not use the best for himself too?

 

[Tapion]

Android 19 pre absorptions being weaker than 1st form Freeza is the most ridiculous shit that i ever heard, sorry.
And i'm even more surprised that it is coming from a guy who i thought that supported Android 19(pre) > Yardrat Goku.

Now, my point of view about the androids is that Android 19 pre is roughly equal to Super Saiyan Yardrat Goku, and that Android 19 post greatly surpasses that level. I'd put him 60% as strong as Healthy Goku.

When Vegeta said that Android 19 wasn't as fearsome as he thought, it doesn't have to mean that he can't dominate Trunks. Trunks told them that the androids also killed Super Saiyan Vegeta - and Vegeta is obviously surprised and irritated with that. With Vegeta utterly dominating Android 19, then obvously the androids are not as fearsome as the rumours made out to Vegeta - because they weren't able to kill him.

I think Vegeta's quote implies #19 post is not that stronger than Mecha saga Trunks. I think it would be more understandable Vegeta compare 19's power with Mecha saga Trunks, and all he expected was that the Androids would be nightmares for his son.

Vegeta doesn't have an accurately gauge of his future self, and I'm sure Vegeta knew he was way stronger than his future self, since:

1- He knew his future self would not have the same motivation to train like him, even more with Goku dying;

2- He said he would not die against these Androids, implying he expected to be a lot stronger than his future self.

What he expected was that the androids were capable of killing everyone, including him. He knew that his future self was killed and was very surprised and angry with that, so he trains more than his future self, but he doesn't know that.

Responding to your points

1. Goku died a few months before the appearance of the Androids, so he still had the motivation to train very hard until Goku died, a few months before the Androids. "A few months" aren't really, really relevant to power gains unless you count Freeza's absurd plot haxxed boost in FNF.

2. Because he was irritated and in denial with his fate. He would TRY not to die.

 

[ahill1]

According to the manga, Goku died not much after the Mecha Freeza saga. I think Herms said Goku died 6 months after Freeza's arrival.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Agreed. He does however say that he made many miscalculations, so it's possible that he built his scouter to scan people only weaker than himself. If they are too strong for the scouter it may give an incorrect reading. The counter to this is that the failed model 16 had a perfect scanner, so why would Gero not use the best for himself too?

Good question. Did #16 ever base anything on calculations? His radar seemed like the closest thing to Chi-sensing. But yeah, it really doesn't make sense for Gero to have an inferior radar. It's also possible that he probably felt his radar was efficient enough. He stopped watching Goku when he went to Namek because he thought he had everything necessary to beat him. I wouldn't be surprised if he just relied on his calculations without tuning his radar to accurately calculate far greater power.