Android 19 and 20 pre and post

[ahill1]

@Tosh - Goku SSJ sick was most likely stronger than Yardrat Goku and still was within a level 19 pre could handle.

@Evil Vegeta I don't know, I don't like threw off that statement. Like I said, 16 said Super Vegeta was better than Cell at everything or something like this. After this, Cell tanked Vegeta's head kick and was even confident in "tanking" a FF. In this situation, everyone assume Cell (vs Vegeta) > Super Vegeta > Cell (initial). I think this situation was paralel to 19 vs Goku fight.

 

[kriss-]

Why was Goku (Sick) stronger than Yardrat Goku?

 

[ahill1]

Why was Goku (Sick) stronger than Yardrat Goku?

Well, even if you believe Tenshinhan forgot Mecha saga SSJ Goku's power, Yamcha and Kuririn did not note anything weird, what I'd think they would if Goku's sick power was any weaker than that they felt at Mecha saga.

Besides this, Piccolo remarked that Goku should be a lot stronger, but he didn't seem to be panicking as if he was at a level completely incapable of beating the Androids that were told to be nightmares compared to Yardrat Goku.

 

[kriss-]

Standing Chi is not the same as fighting Chi.

Piccolo wasn't impressed and noted that he should be stronger.

I'm still not seeing a reason why the Androids need to be stronger than Organic Freeza prior to absorbing all that energy.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo was not impressed because he trained with Goku for three years and knew his full power should be a lot greater than that. But any other character realized Goku should be stronger than that until Piccolo said it (Kuririn even showed surprise at it). And I don't think Piccolo would just let Goku fight if he felt his power was any weaker than Yardrat Goku, since the Androids were told to be nightmares compared to him.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

@Evil Vegeta I don't know, I don't like threw off that statement. Like I said, 16 said Super Vegeta was better than Cell at everything or something like this. After this, Cell tanked Vegeta's head kick and was even confident in "tanking" a FF. In this situation, everyone assume Cell (vs Vegeta) > Super Vegeta > Cell (initial). I think this situation was paralel to 19 vs Goku fight.

So why would Goku be suppressed right after transforming but the humans trying to locate Gero wouldn't be? How does that make sense?

 

[kriss-]

I'm still not seeing a reason for the Androids to be stronger than Organic Freeza, just speculation.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

If I may ask, do you have a reason for Freeza being above them?

 

[kriss-]

I don't need one.

I'm trying to find a reason why they should be.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

It all comes down to where you have Piccolo. If Piccolo is well above Freeza, there's enough room for the Androids to be stronger than Freeza.

As a pair, they do nothing impressive, but they can be anywhere you choose them to be.

 

[kriss-]

Do you think Goku's punch in his Base form should be factored in?

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I don't believe so. It knocked his hat off, but that's about it.

 

[ahill1]

I think #19 pre would crush Freeza.

Mecha Freeza isn't going to last but a few seconds against SSJ future Trunks from the Mecha arc, and #19 although getting beaten around was able to last minutes against an even stronger Super Saiyajin.

 

[kriss-]

I'm just speculating here... and playing with numbers:

Goku
-Base 6,000,000
-Sick 220,000,000
-Worn 109,000,000
-Ssj 300,000,000

Piccolo
-Full Power 200,000,000
-Worn 120,000,000

Android 19
-Initial 9,000,000
-Post Absorption 120,000,000

Android 20
-Initial 10,000,000
-Post Absorption 90,000,000

 

[ahill1]

How in the world was sick Goku 24x stronger than #19? That fight doesn't suggest all that gap at all. #19 would end up worse than #16 [against Semi Cell] had the difference be that big.

The gap between #19 pre and sick Goku was most likely smaller than the gap between SSJ Trunks [Mecha saga] and Mecha Freeza.

 

[kriss-]

I wouldn't place so much emphasis on gaps. Perhaps Goku was just pathetically weak while he was sick.

Goku
-Base 6,000,000
-Sick 150,000,000
-Sick & Drained 90,000,000
-SSj 300,000,000

Piccolo
-Full Power 160,000,000
-Drained 140,000,000

Android 19
-Initial 90,000,000
-Post 150,000,000

Android 20
-Initial 100,000,000
-Post 120,000,000

What about these?

 

[ahill1]

I still think the gap between #19 and sick Goku is too big. But #19 taking hits from SSJ Goku is a bit up to interpretation IMO, since Freeza (50%) withstood hits from SSJ Goku. Goku base withstood hits from 50% Freeza. Base Vegeta withstood hits from Kid Boo. So "taking a beat" is not the best way to explain it, I guess. The best way would be Gero's statement about sick Goku being within a level 19 could handle, but.....

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Android 19 and 20 pre are stronger than Initial SSJ Trunks since nobody contradicts their power.