Base Goku (DBS) vs SSj3 Goku (Z)

[Void]

If the manga were the only work that was part of dragon ball, then you would have a point. It's not, so it's just going to be treated like any other source.

The manga is Toriyama's original work and the source material for all supplemental material. It always takes precedent over anything the Daiz spits out. You can keep saying it doesn't, but you're wrong.

 

[Future Warrior]

Why the hell did this thread turn into a Nappa Battle Power debate? Let's stick to the main topic here guys.

What makes Base Goku that weak compared to SS3 Goku if at all? RoF supports It, and even the Champa arc by Base Goku being able to leave a scratch on Hit.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

What the Daizenshuu says and what the story says are one and the same. The Daizenshuu's word on what the story is saying>anyone elses interpretation since it is the work of the right holders of Dragon Ball.

You keep saying there's some hierarchy, but none is ever stated on an official level, so that's purely a fan made concept that has no basis anywhere. An official work by the right holders=An official work by the right holders. There is no distinction.

Even if we went by the ridiculous logic of manga>everything(It's not, Toei ignored Toriyama's History of Trunks manga chapter in Super and went with their version), it still wouldn't prove anyone's point, because their interpretation of what it says is still nothing more than their interpretation. The Daizenshuu would still reign supreme simply on the basis that it's an official work.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

No, you think it points to him having a higher power level. There's a difference. Daizenshuu>Your opinion. That's basically it. It doesn't matter if the manga didn't say it since the supplementary material for the story did.
If the manga were the only work that was part of dragon ball and the Daizenshuu was a fan made work, then you would have a point. It's not, so it's just going to be treated like any other source.

Yeah, because Vegeta didn't clearly say Nappa would beat Goku if he calmed down, right? Goku didn't say fighting Nappa would take forever, right?

Continue to parrot the Daizenshuu. You're still wrong.

Oh, and the Daiz says Base Kid Trunks=#18, Super Saiyan Goten=Gohan, while the Manga clearly shows Goten is weaker. Also, Super says Freeza>Base Goku. The Daizenshuu isn't the be all end all, nor is it infallible. Get over it and stop acting like it is.

Except the Daizenshuu which places Piccolo's power higher than Gohan's. That rage boost wasn't above Piccolo as already clarified by the Daizenshuu, so your attempt to twist the statement is moot. If you want to play this game, then I'll just say that Gohan didn't actually put his mind to it to successfully control his power. He was just acting out of blind rage.

There's no game for you to play. Gohan demonstrated that he was stronger than Piccolo in the story. Piccolo does absolutely nothing to show he's above Gohan. Meanwhile, Gohan actually lands a direct hit that sends Nappa flying and created an even more powerful attack. Piccolo? Notta. This isn't an interpretation issue. It's literally written in the story. Gohan acting out of blind rage is still far stronger than Piccolo, so you're not saying anything with that.

But it's funny seeing this. Piccolo is scared of Nappa despite there being a small difference, yet Nappa isn't even half as strong as Goku and can be an even match. The Daizenshuu levels don't line up with the power levels. The end.

He says this after Goku beat him, but apparently he didn't power up? Nah, Black powering up after his beating isn't up for contention.

Just checked. You right. Black was still stronger.

Yeah, Goku lost, but not because of he was weaker. SSJR Black and the SSBs are stated to be a match in terms of power, so they are.

Goku got knocked out of Super Saiyan Blue after Black danced around and slashed his ass up. He ain't no match. At that point, Super Saiyan Rose Black>Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Period.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Yeah, because Vegeta didn't clearly say Nappa would beat Goku if he calmed down, right? Goku didn't say fighting Nappa would take forever, right?

Continue to parrot the Daizenshuu. You're still wrong.

Oh, and the Daiz says Base Kid Trunks=#18, Super Saiyan Goten=Gohan, while the Manga clearly shows Goten is weaker. Also, Super says Freeza>Base Goku. The Daizenshuu isn't the be all end all, nor is it infallible. Get over it and stop acting like it is.

None of that refutes official word of Nappa being 4,000 so nah.

The Daizenshuu doesn't say that Base Trunks=#18 and Goten was only equal to a rusty Gohan, so it's moot. After shaking off his rust and training to regain his power, he's far superior to Goten.

There's no game for you to play. Gohan demonstrated that he was stronger than Piccolo in the story. Piccolo does absolutely nothing to show he's above Gohan. Meanwhile, Gohan actually lands a direct hit that sends Nappa flying and created an even more powerful attack. Piccolo? Notta. This isn't an interpretation issue. It's literally written in the story. Gohan acting out of blind rage is still far stronger than Piccolo, so you're not saying anything with that.

But it's funny seeing this. Piccolo is scared of Nappa despite there being a small difference, yet Nappa isn't even half as strong as Goku and can be an even match. The Daizenshuu levels don't line up with the power levels. The end.

No, you think the story showed that. That's just your interpretation. You're wrong according to the owners of Dragon Ball. Doesn't get any simpler than that. Piccolo was still stronger according to word of god.

Gaps don't scale linearly and no source implies anything of the sort, so its moot.

Just checked. You right. Black was still stronger.

Goku got knocked out of Super Saiyan Blue after Black danced around and slashed his ass up. He ain't no match. At that point, Super Saiyan Rose Black>Super Saiyan Blue Goku. Period.

Who cares if Goku was weaker after Black's zenkai? That's not what I was talking about.

 

[Pyro]

Nappa's stupid as fuck and so is that debate. Stick to Goku and Goku here, you rotten toenail faggots.

 

[Future Warrior]

 

[Evil Vegeta]

None of that refutes official word of Nappa being 4,000 so nah.

Goku fighting equally Nappa refutes the word of Nappa being 4k, so yeah. Goku believing a battle with Nappa will take forever also shows otherwise.

The story>Daizenshuu power levels.

But I'll leave it alone.

The Daizenshuu doesn't say that Base Trunks=#18

"He and Goten then participated in the Adult Division as Mighty Mask, demonstrating strength on par with No. 18's, until she managed to see through their disguise."

Clearly it's saying they were equal before the kids transformed.

So yes, it does say that.

Goten was only equal to a rusty Gohan, so it's moot. After shaking off his rust and training to regain his power, he's far superior to Goten.

That's not what the Daizenshuu says. No mention of rusty Gohan anywhere. Don't add your own spin to it. It simply says his Battle Power isn't the least bit inferior to Gohan's. Lol, Gohan didn't regain shit. He was still considered after that month.

No, you think the story showed that. That's just your interpretation. You're wrong according to the owners of Dragon Ball. Doesn't get any simpler than that. Piccolo was still stronger according to word of god.

Uh, "word of god"? What? AT didn't write any of the Daizenshuu. This has been made clear for ages.

There's no what "I think". It's literally written and drawn in the story that Gohan>Piccolo.

Gaps don't scale linearly and no source implies anything of the sort, so its moot.

Irrelevant. Piccolo says Gohan's power surpasses his if he puts his mind to it. Piccolo was already shown to be weaker than enraged Gohan countless times. That didn't suddenly change.

Who cares if Goku was weaker after Black's zenkai? That's not what I was talking about.

"The God of Destruction Beerus is overwhelmingly strong, but if we leave him out, then I think the strongest fighter is Goku Black. I’d say he’s used Son Goku’s power as a base and evolved in his own, unique way."

An actual official statement on Black. Guess what? He's only 2nd to Beers in power. Do you see Goku mentioned anywhere?

So Black is superior to Goku. Stated.

 

[Pyro]

Isn't that an opinion of a producer or something, rather than Toyotaro, AT, or the head of Toei?

 

[p123]

I'll take Nappa at 4,000 if they have to swallow Trunks = 18.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku fighting equally Nappa refutes the word of Nappa being 4k, so yeah. Goku believing a battle with Nappa will take forever also shows otherwise.

The story>Daizenshuu power levels.

But I'll leave it alone.

That's just your interpretation of the story which doesn't mean anything. Daizenshuu's interpretation>Your interpretation.

But I'll leave it alone.

Clearly it's saying they were equal before the kids transformed.

So yes, it does say that.

Yeah, they did demonstrate strength on par with the level of power she used. So what?

"He and Goten then participated in the Adult Division as Mighty Mask, demonstrating strength on par with No. 18's, until she managed to see through their disguise."

Their strength was on par before their identity was found out. After she found out their identity, their strength was no longer on par.

That's not what the Daizenshuu says. No mention of rusty Gohan anywhere. Don't add your own spin to it. It simply says his Battle Power isn't the least bit inferior to Gohan's. Lol, Gohan didn't regain shit. He was still considered after that month.

So Goten is equal to Ultimate Gohan according to you?
He fought on par with Rusty Gohan. They both trained after that. Nothing says that they're equals after that. Doesn't matter if Gohan was still trash compared to his CG level.

Uh, "word of god"? What? AT didn't write any of the Daizenshuu. This has been made clear for ages.

There's no what "I think". It's literally written and drawn in the story that Gohan>Piccolo.

Word of god is anyone with rights to the series. Word of god says Piccolo>Gohan, your opinion on what you think the story is saying is irrelevant.

Irrelevant. Piccolo says Gohan's power surpasses his if he puts his mind to it. Piccolo was already shown to be weaker than enraged Gohan countless times. That didn't suddenly change.

Too bad Gohan didn't put his mind to it. The right holders to the series say otherwise. Not interested in excuses.

An actual official statement on Black. Guess what? He's only 2nd to Beers in power. Do you see Goku mentioned anywhere?

So Black is superior to Goku. Stated.

Yes, at the peak of his power, he is the 2nd strongest. So what? This isn't even relevant.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That's just your interpretation of the story which doesn't mean anything. Daizenshuu's interpretation>Your interpretation.

An interpretation illustrated in the actual story with no power levels, actually.

Their strength was on par before their identity was found out. After she found out their identity, their strength was no longer on par.

Because she found out their identity after they turned Super Saiyan. All that means is the Super Saiyan Kids>#18.

Seriously.

So Goten is equal to Ultimate Gohan according to you?

The same section says Ultimate Gohan>Gotenks, so it's obviously not about him.

He fought on par with Rusty Gohan. They both trained after that. Nothing says that they're equals after that. Doesn't matter if Gohan was still trash compared to his CG level.

They both trained together. If his power was equal to Gohan's, then sparring together wouldn't change that. Besides, it never said they were equals before the tournament began. It simply says they're equals period.

So according to the Daiz, Goten=Gohan is stated. It doesn't say anything about rusty Gohan. That's your spin.

The infallible Daizenshuu says Super Saiyan 2 Gohan fought Dabra in one section and says he never appeared after the Budokai in another, too.

Word of god is anyone with rights to the series. Word of god says Piccolo>Gohan, your opinion on what you think the story is saying is irrelevant.

The actual Word of God says Gohan>Piccolo. You know, the one where the creator actually wrote the dialogue establishing this?

Saying the Daizenshuu is the equivalent of that is like saying all of the Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios are canon because the game has AT's name. Stop.

Too bad Gohan didn't put his mind to it. The right holders to the series say otherwise. Not interested in excuses.

Too bad Gohan did something Piccolo could never do. Don't really care about that other nonsense. Gohan>Piccolo is shown in the story. Stop.

Yes, at the peak of his power, he is the 2nd strongest. So what? This isn't even relevant.

You're entirely semantical on everything. The main point is Super Saiyan Rose Black>Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

Yes, it's very relevant. It means Black is superior. And their various battles showed this, anyway.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

An interpretation illustrated in the actual story with no power levels, actually.

The Daizenshuu already gave clarity. No reason to make assumptions on what you think the story is trying to portray.

Because she found out their identity after they turned Super Saiyan. All that means is the Super Saiyan Kids>#18.

Seriously.

No, that's not what it states.

Prior to when she found out their identity

Spoiler

their strength was on par.

Before that panel they were on par so no, the kids weren't ever stronger than her SSJ or not. So the only variable that's changing in this situation is #18's strength.

The same section says Ultimate Gohan>Gotenks, so it's obviously not about him.

Nope. You're saying it just refers to any Gohan, so according to your logic, we get Goten=Ultimate Gohan>Gotenks.

They both trained together. If his power was equal to Gohan's, then sparring together wouldn't change that. Besides, it never said they were equals before the tournament began. It simply says they're equals period.

So according to the Daiz, Goten=Gohan is stated. It doesn't say anything about rusty Gohan. That's your spin.

The infallible Daizenshuu says Super Saiyan 2 Gohan fought Dabra in one section and says he never appeared after the Budokai in another, too.

Bolds an assumption. Not interested in that nonsense since you would also have to stretch the statement to mean Goten=Ultimate Gohan by your logic, so you end up contradicting yourself.

The Daizenshuu doesn't say that he never used SSJ2 after the Budokai. It just makes no mention of him using it. Omitting info=/=Giving wrong info.

The actual Word of God says Gohan>Piccolo. You know, the one where the creator actually wrote the dialogue establishing this?

Saying the Daizenshuu is the equivalent of that is like saying all of the Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios are canon because the game has AT's name. Stop.

Your interpetation says Gohan>Piccolo. The interpretation that actually matters says Piccolo>Gohan.

Too bad Gohan did something Piccolo could never do. Don't really care about that other nonsense. Gohan>Piccolo is shown in the story. Stop.

According to who? You?

Daizenshuu already clarifies that Piccolo was always above Gohan.

You're entirely semantical on everything. The main point is Super Saiyan Rose Black>Super Saiyan Blue Goku.

Yes, it's very relevant. It means Black is superior. And their various battles showed this, anyway.

Prior to their powers being modified by zenkais and rage boosts, they were a match as stated. No, what you said here isn't relevant.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The Daizenshuu already gave clarity. No reason to make assumptions on what you think the story is trying to portray.

The story says Gohan>Piccolo. Displayed on panel, btw. Those aren't assumptions. Please learn what assumptions are. An assumption is saying Piccolo was entirely wrong on Gohan. That's an opinion derived from an assumption. One which you can't prove.

No, that's not what it states.

That's exactly what it says.

Prior to finding out their identity, Base Trunks was fighting her. Transforming into a Super Saiyan was how she saw through their costume. And we already know Trunks' held-back blast made #18 shit herself. Yes, the Super Saiyan kids are far stronger than #18. Not debatable.

Nope. You're saying it just refers to any Gohan, so according to your logic, we get Goten=Ultimate Gohan>Gotenks.

Again, Ultimate Gohan has a very specific section in that same section that says he's above Gotenks. That's the only Gohan omitted. Every other Gohan isn't.

Bolds an assumption. Not interested in that nonsense since you would also have to stretch the statement to mean Goten=Ultimate Gohan by your logic, so you end up contradicting yourself.

I don't care what you're interested in. Gohan and Goten sparred for the upcoming tournament and this is what's shown:

There's 0 indication that Gohan did better than Goten at any point. The above looks exactly equal, so saying Gohan surpassed him doing the same exact training is based on utter nothingness.

The Daizenshuu doesn't say that he never used SSJ2 after the Budokai. It just makes no mention of him using it. Omitting info=/=Giving wrong info.

Yeah, it does. Gohan has no appearance as a Super Saiyan 2 beyond Vol.37. That means he wasn't recognized as a Super Saiyan 2 in any of the volumes afterwards.

Your interpetation says Gohan>Piccolo. The interpretation that actually matters says Piccolo>Gohan.

If it matters it would've been shown. The story shows Gohan>Piccolo. Piccolo says it. It's shown who's the stronger of the two. Simple.

According to who? You?

According to the Manga:

Gohan telling Piccolo to escape because he doesn't want him to get killed.

Gohan "putting his mind to it" by knocking the shit out of Nappa. Piccolo's reaction alone tells us what's up.

Show one thing in the Manga proving Piccolo>Gohan. You can't.

Btw, are Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios canon?

Daizenshuu already clarifies that Piccolo was always above Gohan.

Manga already clarifies that Gohan was above Piccolo when he put his mind to it. Gohan put his mind to it above and it's reflected in the story. Prove otherwise.

Prior to their powers being modified by zenkais and rage boosts, they were a match as stated. No, what you said here isn't relevant.

There is no prior considering Black was getting zenkais from the very beginning. You're not making sense imposing this hypothetical comparison.

In the end, Black>Goku. If Super Saiyan Rose and Super Saiyan Blue Goku fight, Black wins because he's superior. The end.

Honestly, you were the same guy saying Krillin and Roshi>Goten and Trunks, even though Goku only cited their inexperience and recklessness as to why they wouldn't be good on the team. Their power wasn't an issue. Ignoring context seems to be your thing.

 

[Animelover5487]

What the Daizenshuu says and what the story says are one and the same. The Daizenshuu's word on what the story is saying>anyone elses interpretation since it is the work of the right holders of Dragon Ball.

You keep saying there's some hierarchy, but none is ever stated on an official level, so that's purely a fan made concept that has no basis anywhere. An official work by the right holders=An official work by the right holders. There is no distinction.

Even if we went by the ridiculous logic of manga>everything(It's not, Toei ignored Toriyama's History of Trunks manga chapter in Super and went with their version), it still wouldn't prove anyone's point, because their interpretation of what it says is still nothing more than their interpretation. The Daizenshuu would still reign supreme simply on the basis that it's an official work.

The Daiz says Kami is weaker than King Piccolo, despite him finger-flicking a Goku stronger than Piccolo Daimao. Likewise, the Daiz has Popo many times stronger than Kami and even BOZ Goku/Piccolo even though Popo said Kami is much stronger than him.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The story says Gohan>Piccolo. Displayed on panel, btw. Those aren't assumptions. Please learn what assumptions are. An assumption is saying Piccolo was entirely wrong on Gohan. That's an opinion derived from an assumption. One which you can't prove.

No, you think it does. If Gohan put his mind to it, he's stronger, but he didn't. Oh well, at least we have the Daizenshuu to clear that up.

That's exactly what it says.

Prior to finding out their identity, Base Trunks was fighting her. Transforming into a Super Saiyan was how she saw through their costume. And we already know Trunks' held-back blast made #18 shit herself. Yes, the Super Saiyan kids are far stronger than #18. Not debatable.

Their equal until she finds out their identity, so lets walk you through this since you don't seem to get it.

On this page, their strength is still on par:

Spoiler

Only when she finds out their identity on the next page

Spoiler

is their strength no longer on par.

No the Super Saiyan Kids aren't stronger than #18, otherwise they would've been stated to be part of the top 10 strongest on earth.

Again, Ultimate Gohan has a very specific section in that same section that says he's above Gotenks. That's the only Gohan omitted. Every other Gohan isn't.

Doesn't matter according to your logic. Gohan=Gohan and the Daizenshuu apparently makes no distinction. So Gohan can't surpass Goten.

I don't care what you're interested in. Gohan and Goten sparred for the upcoming tournament and this is what's shown:

Spoiler

There's 0 indication that Gohan did better than Goten at any point. The above looks exactly equal, so saying Gohan surpassed him doing the same exact training is based on utter nothingness.

This is expanded on in the anime. After Gohan shakes off his rust, Goten can't touch him. In M10, Base Gohan is shown to be superior to the SSJ kids. Yes, they were equal at one point.

Yeah, it does. Gohan has no appearance as a Super Saiyan 2 beyond Vol.37. That means he wasn't recognized as a Super Saiyan 2 in any of the volumes afterwards.

It means that he wasn't mentioned to have used it. That's it. Prior to later Daizenshuus coming out there wasn't any proof that he was, but now there is.

If it matters it would've been shown. The story shows Gohan>Piccolo. Piccolo says it. It's shown who's the stronger of the two. Simple.

You think that was shown, it was stated otherwise. You can remain in denial if you want though.

According to the Manga:

Spoiler

Gohan telling Piccolo to escape because he doesn't want him to get killed.

Spoiler

Gohan "putting his mind to it" by knocking the shit out of Nappa. Piccolo's reaction alone tells us what's up.

Show one thing in the Manga proving Piccolo>Gohan. You can't.

Just means that Gohan cares about Piccolo. He wasn't giving orders as his superior. Gohan used some power, but didn't truly put his mind into it, otherwise he wouldn't only be able to use it momentarily. The owners of Dragon Ball already clarified the situation. Your points are moot based on that alone.

Btw, are Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios canon?

Not seeing how this is a relevant question.

Manga already clarifies that Gohan was above Piccolo when he put his mind to it. Gohan put his mind to it above and it's reflected in the story. Prove otherwise.

The Daizenshuu lists Gohan's power lower than Piccolo's, hence he didn't. Easy.

There is no prior considering Black was getting zenkais from the very beginning. You're not making sense imposing this hypothetical comparison.

In the end, Black>Goku. If Super Saiyan Rose and Super Saiyan Blue Goku fight, Black wins because he's superior. The end.

Honestly, you were the same guy saying Krillin and Roshi>Goten and Trunks, even though Goku only cited their inexperience and recklessness as to why they wouldn't be good on the team. Their power wasn't an issue. Ignoring context seems to be your thing.

Black wins because he's basically a better version of Goku. Their power was stated to be a match, so when was it shown to be a match? After Black first unlocked Rose. Not seeing why it's so hard to put two and two together. Probably the bias.

Goten and Trunks are not part of the top 10 strongest people on earth as stated by Toei. Their inexperience and recklessness is irrelevant to their power. The only thing they possess is power and they wield it recklessly.
Everyone on the team is better balanced overall on top of being stronger because as stated, they are the 10 strongest people on earth. Not hard to understand at all. Don't know what the obsession with inflating Goten and Trunks to absurd levels is about.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The story says Gohan>Piccolo. Displayed on panel, btw. Those aren't assumptions. Please learn what assumptions are. An assumption is saying Piccolo was entirely wrong on Gohan. That's an opinion derived from an assumption. One which you can't prove.

No, you think it does. If Gohan put his mind to it, he's stronger, but he didn't. Oh well, at least we have the Daizenshuu to clear that up.

That's exactly what it says.

Prior to finding out their identity, Base Trunks was fighting her. Transforming into a Super Saiyan was how she saw through their costume. And we already know Trunks' held-back blast made #18 shit herself. Yes, the Super Saiyan kids are far stronger than #18. Not debatable.

Their equal until she finds out their identity, so lets walk you through this since you don't seem to get it.

On this page, their strength is still on par:

Spoiler

Only when she finds out their identity on the next page

Spoiler

is their strength no longer on par.

No the Super Saiyan Kids aren't stronger than #18, otherwise they would've been stated to be part of the top 10 strongest on earth.

Again, Ultimate Gohan has a very specific section in that same section that says he's above Gotenks. That's the only Gohan omitted. Every other Gohan isn't.

Doesn't matter according to your logic. Gohan=Gohan and the Daizenshuu apparently makes no distinction. So Gohan can't surpass Goten.

I don't care what you're interested in. Gohan and Goten sparred for the upcoming tournament and this is what's shown:

Spoiler

There's 0 indication that Gohan did better than Goten at any point. The above looks exactly equal, so saying Gohan surpassed him doing the same exact training is based on utter nothingness.

This is expanded on in the anime. After Gohan shakes off his rust, Goten can't touch him. In M10, Base Gohan is shown to be superior to the SSJ kids. Yes, they were equal at one point.

Yeah, it does. Gohan has no appearance as a Super Saiyan 2 beyond Vol.37. That means he wasn't recognized as a Super Saiyan 2 in any of the volumes afterwards.

It means that he wasn't mentioned to have used it. That's it. Prior to later Daizenshuus coming out there wasn't any proof that he was, but now there is.

If it matters it would've been shown. The story shows Gohan>Piccolo. Piccolo says it. It's shown who's the stronger of the two. Simple.

You think that was shown, it was stated otherwise. You can remain in denial if you want though.

According to the Manga:

Spoiler

Gohan telling Piccolo to escape because he doesn't want him to get killed.

Spoiler

Gohan "putting his mind to it" by knocking the shit out of Nappa. Piccolo's reaction alone tells us what's up.

Show one thing in the Manga proving Piccolo>Gohan. You can't.

Just means that Gohan cares about Piccolo. He wasn't giving orders as his superior. Gohan used some power, but didn't truly put his mind into it, otherwise he wouldn't only be able to use it momentarily. The owners of Dragon Ball already clarified the situation. Your points are moot based on that alone.

Btw, are Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios canon?

Not seeing how this is a relevant question.

Manga already clarifies that Gohan was above Piccolo when he put his mind to it. Gohan put his mind to it above and it's reflected in the story. Prove otherwise.

The Daizenshuu lists Gohan's power lower than Piccolo's, hence he didn't. Easy.

There is no prior considering Black was getting zenkais from the very beginning. You're not making sense imposing this hypothetical comparison.

In the end, Black>Goku. If Super Saiyan Rose and Super Saiyan Blue Goku fight, Black wins because he's superior. The end.

Honestly, you were the same guy saying Krillin and Roshi>Goten and Trunks, even though Goku only cited their inexperience and recklessness as to why they wouldn't be good on the team. Their power wasn't an issue. Ignoring context seems to be your thing.

Black wins because he's basically a better version of Goku. Their power was stated to be a match, so when was it shown to be a match? After Black first unlocked Rose. Not seeing why it's so hard to put two and two together. Probably the bias.

Goten and Trunks are not part of the top 10 strongest people on earth as stated by Toei. Their inexperience and recklessness is irrelevant to their power. The only thing they possess is power and they wield it recklessly.
Everyone on the team is better balanced overall on top of being stronger because as stated, they are the 10 strongest people on earth. Not hard to understand at all. Don't know what the obsession with inflating Goten and Trunks to absurd levels is about.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The story says Gohan>Piccolo. Displayed on panel, btw. Those aren't assumptions. Please learn what assumptions are. An assumption is saying Piccolo was entirely wrong on Gohan. That's an opinion derived from an assumption. One which you can't prove.

No, you think it does. If Gohan put his mind to it, he's stronger, but he didn't. Oh well, at least we have the Daizenshuu to clear that up.

That's exactly what it says.

Prior to finding out their identity, Base Trunks was fighting her. Transforming into a Super Saiyan was how she saw through their costume. And we already know Trunks' held-back blast made #18 shit herself. Yes, the Super Saiyan kids are far stronger than #18. Not debatable.

Their equal until she finds out their identity, so lets walk you through this since you don't seem to get it.

On this page, their strength is still on par:

Spoiler

Only when she finds out their identity on the next page

Spoiler

is their strength no longer on par.

No the Super Saiyan Kids aren't stronger than #18, otherwise they would've been stated to be part of the top 10 strongest on earth.

Again, Ultimate Gohan has a very specific section in that same section that says he's above Gotenks. That's the only Gohan omitted. Every other Gohan isn't.

Doesn't matter according to your logic. Gohan=Gohan and the Daizenshuu apparently makes no distinction. So Gohan can't surpass Goten.

I don't care what you're interested in. Gohan and Goten sparred for the upcoming tournament and this is what's shown:

Spoiler

There's 0 indication that Gohan did better than Goten at any point. The above looks exactly equal, so saying Gohan surpassed him doing the same exact training is based on utter nothingness.

This is expanded on in the anime. After Gohan shakes off his rust, Goten can't touch him. In M10, Base Gohan is shown to be superior to the SSJ kids. Yes, they were equal at one point.

Yeah, it does. Gohan has no appearance as a Super Saiyan 2 beyond Vol.37. That means he wasn't recognized as a Super Saiyan 2 in any of the volumes afterwards.

It means that he wasn't mentioned to have used it. That's it. Prior to later Daizenshuus coming out there wasn't any proof that he was, but now there is.

If it matters it would've been shown. The story shows Gohan>Piccolo. Piccolo says it. It's shown who's the stronger of the two. Simple.

You think that was shown, it was stated otherwise. You can remain in denial if you want though.

According to the Manga:

Spoiler

Gohan telling Piccolo to escape because he doesn't want him to get killed.

Spoiler

Gohan "putting his mind to it" by knocking the shit out of Nappa. Piccolo's reaction alone tells us what's up.

Show one thing in the Manga proving Piccolo>Gohan. You can't.

Just means that Gohan cares about Piccolo. He wasn't giving orders as his superior. Gohan used some power, but didn't truly put his mind into it, otherwise he wouldn't only be able to use it momentarily. The owners of Dragon Ball already clarified the situation. Your points are moot based on that alone.

Btw, are Budokai Tenkaichi 3 bios canon?

Not seeing how this is a relevant question.

Manga already clarifies that Gohan was above Piccolo when he put his mind to it. Gohan put his mind to it above and it's reflected in the story. Prove otherwise.

The Daizenshuu lists Gohan's power lower than Piccolo's, hence he didn't. Easy.

There is no prior considering Black was getting zenkais from the very beginning. You're not making sense imposing this hypothetical comparison.

In the end, Black>Goku. If Super Saiyan Rose and Super Saiyan Blue Goku fight, Black wins because he's superior. The end.

Honestly, you were the same guy saying Krillin and Roshi>Goten and Trunks, even though Goku only cited their inexperience and recklessness as to why they wouldn't be good on the team. Their power wasn't an issue. Ignoring context seems to be your thing.

Black wins because he's basically a better version of Goku. Their power was stated to be a match, so when was it shown to be a match? After Black first unlocked Rose. Not seeing why it's so hard to put two and two together. Probably the bias.

Goten and Trunks are not part of the top 10 strongest people on earth as stated by Toei. Their inexperience and recklessness is irrelevant to their power. The only thing they possess is power and they wield it recklessly.
Everyone on the team is better balanced overall on top of being stronger because as stated, they are the 10 strongest people on earth. Not hard to understand at all. Don't know what the obsession with inflating Goten and Trunks to absurd levels is about.

The Daiz says Kami is weaker than King Piccolo, despite him finger-flicking a Goku stronger than Piccolo Daimao. Likewise, the Daiz has Popo many times stronger than Kami and even BOZ Goku/Piccolo even though Popo said Kami is much stronger than him.

Kami got weaker. Popo got stronger. Simple.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Not sure why it triple posted.

 

[Pyro]

Honestly, I don't know why you're so adamant about the kids being pathetic twerps that supposedly have battle powers below the likes of Master Roshi. Episode 83 gave a perfectly valid explanation for why the kids weren't chosen for the upcoming tournament. Goku, nor anybody else, never once brought up their lack of power.

On the flipside, Goku thinks Goten and Trunks aren’t suited for the tournament: despite their power, they’re too straightforward and lack experience, so they’re not suited for a ring-out battle like this.

I'm not sure if that's exactly what was said, but according to Herms' Twitter here and here, their power was never said to be lacking – merely their experience was the reason for their exclusion. If their power was the issue, that's what would've been mentioned at least somewhere, not completely ignored in favor of bringing up experience level.

In that case, Gohan suggests Roshi: he’s got plenty of experience and some tricky moves. Now they’ve got seven!

We get a specific reason for Roshi's inclusion, and it isn't power-related. Why this must apply for the kids, I don't know, considering the conversational context was about who was best fit for the tournament, not who had the highest raw amount of power.

If you believe the kids are weaker than Roshi, OK, go with that. But this tournament doesn't support your belief.