How and why is Piccolo above all of the Saiyans and Kaioshin? Dabura specifically says three had great potential and Babidi told him to kill the "riffraff" per the Viz translation. Dabura eliminating Piccolo confirms he's below the Base Saiyans there.Buu Arc: Piccolo > Goku Base >~ Vegeta base > Gohan Base > Shin > Pui Pui > Saiyan Estimate
With his weights on he's weaker thenHow and why is Piccolo above all of the Saiyans and Kaioshin? Dabura specifically says three had great potential and Babidi told him to kill the "riffraff" per the Viz translation. Dabura eliminating Piccolo confirms he's below the Base Saiyans there.
Sure, but there's no reason to not accept both so long as they don't contradict. It is sure a lot better than our own imaginations of how things should be don't you think?The problem with DBS is there are two different versions of it that run concurrently with each other. Unless I’ve misunderstood and everyone accepts that one version takes precedent over the other.
Exactly, @ahill1 is trying to portray the reverse of reality here. The CG is fa more ambiguous than the Buu Saga and Super portrayals of Piccolo's power. There are ways to hand wave the CG stuff as you just did.Base > Piccolo is difficult enough to handwave with just the Boo arc though. The weirdest thing is probably Piccolo > tired MSSJ Goku, but you can just assume Piccolo’s Cell Jr didn’t try as hard, for example. It’s weird and most definitely not what anyone would think if looking at the CG in isolation, but it’s entirely possible and works better than assuming that the Saiyans at the Budokai lied or were forgetful.
The problem with DBS is there are two different versions of it that run concurrently with each other.
I wonder how weak RoF Gohan is, probably somewhere around Piccolo or Kaioshin. He's only a bit stronger than Piccolo, right?
I'm not sure this works either. Trunks and Goten were unable to pull off this "invisible" Super Saiyan tactic. What makes you think the others could? Is there any evidence of anyone doing this? A burst of Ssj2 energy is completely different than actually performing an attack.I think the no SSJ rule is easy to handwave for reasons @ahill1 mentioned earlier (They can use SSJ faster than anyone sees)
The anime is probably better to go off of. So RoF is probably only around Kaioshin then.In the anime, Base Gohan is comparable to a guy who tanked and one shot Piccolo. In the movie, Gohan needs SSJ to one shot a goon who’s = Piccolo.
Nah, Cell just didn't give it enough nourishment. That poor little thing. The neglected Cell Jr.The weirdest thing is probably Piccolo > tired MSSJ Goku, but you can just assume Piccolo’s Cell Jr didn’t try as hard, for example.
I'm not sure this works either. Trunks and Goten were unable to pull off this "invisible" Super Saiyan tactic. What makes you think the others could? Is there any evidence of anyone doing this? A burst of Ssj2 energy is completely different than actually performing an attack.
The anime is probably better to go off of. So RoF is probably only around Kaioshin then.
I'd say this sounds about right, what you think?
RoF Gohan 800
Kaioshin 750
Piccolo 500
Sure, but the evidence seems to point in my direction more. Super Saiyan still requires effort to transform into, @ahill1 is creating an unrealistic element here that should hold absolutely zero weight in a debate.Fair enough, though the boys being incapable of something doesn’t mean the far experienced adults can’t either.
Great point and yes, exactly. Special training needed to do that.Closest thing that comes to mind is Vegeta switching between SSJG and SSJB in the manga, but he needed a Rosat training just to master that.
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Yeah, he did an omega tank right? Yeah, 2x is good.Shouldn’t Gohan be a 1,000 to tank him?
Anime is more canon than movie. No choice with this here I'd say.I think trusting the anime is messy. Too much Toeism.
@ahill1 What do you mean by "the legend of the debate"?Lol MikaelHarding, the legend of debate
Anime is more canon than movie. No choice with this here I'd say.
I just find it weird the Cell Junior wouldn't put Piccolo down. Holding back not to kill is one thing, but holding back not to put Piccolo in a situation Gohan would feel agony is something that doesn't make sense.
Now we are talking. Anime scaling is garbage. We are far better off with the manga, and the manga approach seems to go with the movies as canon unles Toyo makes some changes. So movie + manga might be the best way and keeping anything in the anime that doesn't contradict I'd say.I just don’t want to mess with the anime and end up having to scale the anime ToP dawg. It’s madness.
Isn't God a better form that all the others? Not taxing at all?That was before any RoSaT training btw. Goku hadn't mastery over God like Vegeta achieved earlier. And hadn't the mastery over it the same level as with MSSJ, which was amost a base lik state to him.
Dude, Vegeta says he will win the tournament in Base with Android 18 right next to him and then his son holds his own against her wearing a freaking costume. And then Base Gotenks vs Base Vegetto is an insane blowout. Read the room brah.Tbh, I think the Boo saga implications are easier to handwave.