Battle Powers List (Z)

[p123]

Conjecture. Gohan is at least as great as a master as Krillen, Yamcha and Goku were in Initial DB. He had the legendary Piccolo Daimao train him for over 6 months with the intent on Gohan being the one to finish the Saiyans.

The Masenko should at least be as strong as the Kamehameha.

The Kamehameha is pretty damn strong in itself. It's supposed to determine a match if landed.

Also, Yamcha implies...

Kamehameha > Wolf Fang Fist 2.0 > Wolf Fang Fist

While WFF is suggested to be significant. Boom.

 

[Victorious]

No he's not, he can't even control his ki or see the Saibaman fight Yamcha while everyone was easily keeping up.

 

[p123]

That just shows us that Gohan cannot sense ki. Something that Krillen, Yamcha, Tao Pai Pai, Tien, Chaozu and Goku couldn't do prior to Kami and Popo's training.

 

[Victorious]

How much amped do you think KHH for Goku at the start of Dragon Ball?

It can't be that high at all, like 1.15x or something. I can't see Goku's Super KHH being more than like 1.33x vs Piccolo Junior.

 

[p123]

Kamehameha has to be at least 1.5x imo.

Wolf Fang Fist is 1.15x or so.. It has to be a significant boost.

Wolf Fang Fist 2.0, has to be a significant increase above Version 1 or what's the point.

WFF 2.0 - 1.3x

Kamehameha is superior to WFF by a large amount warranting a huge power up and concentration of ki on Tien's part to deal with it.

Kamehameha 1.5x

 

[Victorious]

How do you explain Piccolo's feat? He takes a Super KHH?

 

[p123]

Cui- I don't care how strong you are! You're nothing if you leave yourself wide open!! ( Vs Vegeta )

It's all about defense, toughness and whether you were on guard or not. I'd even venture that Cell was off guard against Vegeta's Final Flash as well and could probably survive it if better prepped.

 

[Victorious]

Well that just implies that stronger guys can be vunerable to weaker guy's attacks. It doesnt imply that a weaker or on par guy in the case of Piccolo can take a blast 1.7x or higher his own power straight up.

Regarding Cell, he seemed pretty on guard to me, he even clenched his fists and prepared to brace himself. To me the only surprising thing for Cell was just how damn powerful the blast actually was. Which is why he made the "ohh shit" face.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

light of death is a mistranslation

 

[p123]

My point being damage from ki blast is entirely dependant on your toughness, how prepared you were and of course plot.

Vegeta is too tough for KKx4 Kamehameha to take him out.

Super Saiyan Gohan is not instantly evaporated by Majin Buu's huge ki blast.

The list goes on and on.

 

[Six Trails]

Bump because I added the rest of Z. I will fix the format later.

 

[kriss-]

Went through as much as I could. But I couldn't finish.

a) Radditz should be 1,500
b) Nappa is too close to Goku
c) Goku uses the Kamehameha to channel his Kaio-Ken power through.
d) Zarbon is too close to Vegeta.
e) Vegeta is too powerful in comparison to Jeice.
f) Gohan is too powerful against Freeza.
g) Kuririn is too powerful as well.
h) Vegeta is too close to Freeza
i) Piccolo is too weak when he arrives on Namek
j) Freeza is much, much too powerful.
k) Goku is much too powerful
l) Freeza is too close to Goku.
m) Mecha Freeza shouldn't be stronger than Goku was on Namek. At least not yet.
n) Future Trunks is too powerful.
o) Yardrat Goku is too powerful.
p) Too big of a gap between Vegeta and Android 18.
q) Vegeta is too powerful as a SSjG2.
r) Trunks is too close to Vegeta after the 1rst RoSaT.
s) Trunks is too powerful as a SSjG3 in comparison to Cell.
t) Too large of a gap between Vegeta & Goku at the Cell Games
u) Piccolo is too weak at the Cell Games
v) Gohan is too powerful at the Cell Games
w) Super perfect Cell should be weaker in comparison to Gohan
x) Goten is too close to Gohan. Piccolo is regarded as the strongest by Kuririn, not those two.
y) Pui Pui is too powerful
z) Yakon is too weak

 

[Six Trails]

a) Radditz should be 1,500

I disagree. I do not consider a battle power of 1,500 to rival a battle power of 1,200.

b) Nappa is too close to Goku

Disagree again. Nappa fought even with Goku when he calmed down.

c) Goku uses the Kamehameha to channel his Kaio-Ken power through.

I see it more as his Kamehameha amp is limited when using the Kaioken because he's already amping his battle power, but he's still able to amp the Kamehameha a tiny bit.

d) Zarbon is too close to Vegeta.

Beautiful Zarbon or Monster Zarbon?

e) Vegeta is too powerful in comparison to Jeice.

http://dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1891#p38642
http://dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1891#p38658
http://dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1891#p38677

^ Read there for my opinion on Vegeta's battle power.

f) Gohan is too powerful against Freeza.

What makes you say that? He was considered of help against Freeza's (expected) 2nd form.

g) Kuririn is too powerful as well.

Again, why? He was also considered of help against Freeza's (expected) 2nd form.

h) Vegeta is too close to Freeza

I don't think so. Besides being winded after their little scuffle, Vegeta was able to hold his own when against Freeza.

i) Piccolo is too weak when he arrives on Namek

Disagree. 270,000 x 2 = 540,000 >= 530,000 (Freeza).

j) Freeza is much, much too powerful.

Final form Freeza? Why so?

k) Goku is much too powerful

Again, why?

l) Freeza is too close to Goku.

Disagree. Their fight was nearly even until Freeza's stamina depleted in my eyes.

m) Mecha Freeza shouldn't be stronger than Goku was on Namek. At least not yet.

I don't see why not. He's confident in going against Goku.

n) Future Trunks is too powerful.

You could elaborate more.

o) Yardrat Goku is too powerful.

Again, you could elaborate.

p) Too big of a gap between Vegeta and Android 18.

(Read above.)

q) Vegeta is too powerful as a SSjG2.

...

r) Trunks is too close to Vegeta after the 1rst RoSaT.

According to Vegeta, Trunks is nearly as powerful as him.

s) Trunks is too powerful as a SSjG3 in comparison to Cell.

Cell said Trunks "far" surpasses him, so I disagree.

t) Too large of a gap between Vegeta & Goku at the Cell Games

I prefer to keep it as large as possible since a worn down Goku was implied to be more of a threat than Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo combined.

u) Piccolo is too weak at the Cell Games

I don't see why that is.

v) Gohan is too powerful at the Cell Games

I can agree with this point, though I usually stretch out Gohan's power a bit to better space out the Saiyans during the early Boo arc.

w) Super perfect Cell should be weaker in comparison to Gohan

I think the gap I have now is fine. Gohan should be able to beat Cell with the type of gap I gave, which is the only requirement for me.

x) Goten is too close to Gohan. Piccolo is regarded as the strongest by Kuririn, not those two.

Goten sparred nearly evenly with Gohan, so I think the gap I have is fine. I'd even put them a little closer, though Goku expecting more from them (Goten and Trunks) tells me that Goten isn't exactly equal with Gohan yet.

y) Pui Pui is too powerful

Why?

z) Yakon is too weak

He's feasibly close to Base Goku, which is good enough for me.

 

[kriss-]

I disagree. I do not consider a battle power of 1,500 to rival a battle power of 1,200.

Gohan's attack really damaged him. He didn't expect it, so it makes it even worse.

Disagree again. Nappa fought even with Goku when he calmed down.

They only exchanged 2 punches, 1 from each other. That hardly equates to fighting evenely.

I see it more as his Kamehameha amp is limited when using the Kaioken because he's already amping his battle power, but he's still able to amp the Kamehameha a tiny bit.

Agree to disagree here.

Beautiful Zarbon or Monster Zarbon?

Monster Zarbon.

The nigga' got wrecked. He only lasted a few pages.

^ Read there for my opinion on Vegeta's battle power.

I went directly to the Manga.

Vegeta was unable to single shot Ginyu at 23,000 and he was putting effort into his attacks, same with Jeice.

He should be closer to 50,000.

What makes you say that? He was considered of help against Freeza's (expected) 2nd form.

Too much emphasis is put on hypotheticals and speculation with no actual proof.

Vegeta was counting on his enraged power becoming relevant and his continuously increasing battle power against strong opponents.

Again, why? He was also considered of help against Freeza's (expected) 2nd form.

Their battle power is continuously rising. Kuririn also has the Kienzan. He shouldn't be so powerful to begin with.

I don't think so. Besides being winded after their little scuffle, Vegeta was able to hold his own when against Freeza.

Freeza was completely nonchalant. Vegeta had a hard time standing.

Disagree. 270,000 x 2 = 540,000 >= 530,000 (Freeza).

Try to use words.

540 to 530 leaves too much to be desired. There are other factors that come into play than just battle powers.

Final form Freeza? Why so?

Official sources cite him at 120 million.

Again, why?

Official sources

Disagree. Their fight was nearly even until Freeza's stamina depleted in my eyes.

Goku had full control of the fight.

I don't see why not. He's confident in going against Goku.

He's not certain. That's why he brought King Cold along.

You could elaborate more.

He's too powerful in comparison to Mecha Freeza.

Again, you could elaborate.

Trunks was holding back.

There is no evidence that he's that much more powerful.

(Read above.)

The fight was fairly close until his stamina depleted.

...

Vegeta was bloodied from Semi Perfect Cell.

According to Vegeta, Trunks is nearly as powerful as him.

Vegeta also says he's more powerful.

So it's subjective to what degree.

Cell said Trunks "far" surpasses him, so I disagree.

15-20% could account as 'far' surpass him.

50% is just killing it.

I prefer to keep it as large as possible since a worn down Goku was implied to be more of a threat than Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo combined.

Only if he took a Senzu bean.

I don't see why that is.

He wasn't the only one holding his own at the Cell Games against the Cell Juniors.

I think the gap I have now is fine. Gohan should be able to beat Cell with the type of gap I gave, which is the only requirement for me.

People give merit to Kid Gohan's power and not Super Perfect Cells.

They actually shit all over it by saying he's not a threat and that Dabura is his level.

It should be a larger gap.

Goten sparred nearly evenly with Gohan, so I think the gap I have is fine. I'd even put them a little closer, though Goku expecting more from them (Goten and Trunks) tells me that Goten isn't exactly equal with Gohan yet.

Sparring is not the same as fighting seriously.

Why?

10x Gravity is impressive to him.

He's Saiyan Saga tier at best.

He's feasibly close to Base Goku, which is good enough for me.

He's stronger.

Gohan said him and Goku could beat him if they fight together, presumably in their Base forms. Otherwise Goku needs Super Saiyan.

 

[Six Trails]

a.) Wouldn't that make him closer to 1,250 than 1,500 if he was hurt that badly by a battle power of 1,307?
b.) It's even nonetheless.
c.) Okay.
d.) To be fair, Vegeta had to use dirty tactics to get the upper hand.
e.) Will lower Vegeta then.
f.) That's your opinion. I interpret Gohan's usefulness as being his current power, not just his rage.
g.) If his Kienzan is all he is contributing, then he's contributing nothing, as Vegeta has the same technique.
h.) Freeza wasn't nonchalant when actually grappling with Vegeta if I recall correctly.
i.) What are you going on about? A 540 might be able to beat a 530, right? Because's that all Nail says about a hypothetical Kamiccolo, that he might be able to beat Freeza.
j.) I don't follow those official sources.
k.) (Read above.)
l.) You could elaborate more instead of just making a claim without backing it up.
m.) He thinks he probably can and that it's 100% guaranteed with Cold, which to me implies slightly stronger. He could've also expected Goku to be stronger.
n.) How is he too powerful compared to Mecha Freeza? I don't believe there's anything in the manga that places a cap on how high Trunks can be.
o.) I don't even have the gap that big. Also, Goku > Goku (expected) >/>= Trunks.
p.) #18 called Vegeta nothing special and thought he was acting "weak" when he fought her. Not only that, but 1st form Cell "easily" surpasses Vegeta, and that Cell doesn't even rival #18. So I think there is quite a substantial gap between Vegeta and #18.
q.) I think the gap is small enough that Cell can give Vegeta a lip bleed.
r.) If it's subjective then why did you call it out in the first place?
s.) It can, but so can 50%. It's also subjective, there's nothing to say that it's incorrect.
t.) Fair point, though Goku still seemed to have a God status over Vegeta and Trunks. As long as Vegeta is well above 50% Goku, I think the gap is fine.
u.) He wasn't necessarily the only one holding his own, nothing actually says Piccolo was for a fact holding his own.
v.) As long as Kid Gohan is stronger by a noticeable margin (which he is), then all of that can be justified. Besides, Dabra wasn't necessarily compared to Super Perfect Cell.
w.) Proof?
x.) It's not impressive to him. He just thought it would affect Vegeta because he thought Vegeta was a random Earthling who had never been in 10x gravity before.
y.) Because of the dark.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta and Piccolo (Trunks saga) that stronger than Namek base Goku???

 

[Six Trails]

Yes.

 

[ahill1]

Yes.

I disagree. There's nothing implying Vegeta was way stronger than Namek Goku. Bulma said he trained, yes, But him being that stronger than Namek Goku is insane IMO.

Also, why cannot Imperfect Cell rival #18?

 

[Six Trails]

I don't see anything that says otherwise. Piccolo and Vegeta can literally be anywhere as long as they're weaker than Base Trunks and Base Goku.

Cell doesn't rival #18 because #16 only mentioned that Piccolo rivaled #18 and #17 when Cell and Piccolo were fighting. If Cell also rivaled at least #18, would it not be worth mentioning?

 

[ahill1]

I don't see anything that says otherwise. Piccolo and Vegeta can literally be anywhere as long as they're weaker than Base Trunks and Base Goku.

Cell doesn't rival #18 because #16 only mentioned that Piccolo rivaled #18 and #17 when Cell and Piccolo were fighting. If Cell also rivaled at least #18, would it not be worth mentioning?

#16 mentioned that Piccolo rivals "both of you", right. But this doesn't prevent Cell rivaling #18. Cell could be rivaling #18 and yet not be rivaling "both of them", right?