I am going out right now but don't worry... I will come back and address your post... It's not like wat I posted doesn't debunk it anyway... In the manwhile:
<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Spoiler: click to toggle</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">I will start with Movie 8. Let's start by Movie 8 Z Fighters.
Movie 8
Let's start by some facts. Movie 8 was released in March 6, 1993, between episodes 176 to 177, which means movie 8 was released before MSSJ Goku and the Cell Games were revealed in the Anime, so how the can they be Cell Games levels in movie 8? Toei never showed a form in the movie before they showed it in the Anime. For example Gotenks never went SSJ3 in movie 12 because he was not revealed in the Anime. The release proves Toei worked on movie 8 before they even worked on Cell Games levels or MSSJ Goku which means they can't be in movie 8 because they have to be first introduced in the Anime. A movie doesn't also take place in a logic time line in the Anime. It takes place during the short Saga. Movie 8 takes during the Perfect Cell Saga when Cell went Perfect till just before the Cell Games began. And for all the idiots who say "well Gohan was a SSJ so that means that was after they finished training" This is bull. Movies are alternative universe. Movie 4 Goku was on Earth when he should be on Namek. Goku was also stated the strongest in movie 8 and not Gohan like in the Cell Games, in fact if we look at movie 8 Gohan...
Compared to Cell Games Gohan....
You can notice 2 things. The first one is that Gohan looks older when he fought Cell than in movie 8 and the second thing is that Movie 8 Gohan was wearing his Androids Saga outfit and not the Cell Games which means Toei even started working on movie 8 before Goku and Gohan were out of the Rosat and probably when Cell went perfect. Toei copied Gohan's base form from than Rosat as Gohan never appeared in his base form until after he beat Cell which was not even revealed in the Manga. The scenes in movie 9 were based on the Cell Games like Bojack's defeat and Bojack's henchmen's death being similar since movie 9 is the reference of the Cell Games. Every movie is the reference f the short Saga. Movie 6=Androids Saga, this is why the scenes in movie 6 are based on Goku and Vegeta's fight vs Androids 19 and 20 because they had the same power in movie 6. The scenes in movie 8 are based on the Perfect Cell Saga. Vegta blasting Broly is based on the way he blasted Cell, Broly's transformation is based on Perfect Cell's, etc. Vegeta was kicking and blasting Broly like he did vs Cell since this is Perfect Cell Saga Vegeta who is just 1st Post.
What I am trying to say is that every movie is based on the short saga.
Movie 6=Androids Saga
Movie 7=Imperfect Cell Saga
Movie 8=Perfect Cell Saga
Movie 9=Cell Games Saga
Movie 8 is based on Perfect Cell Saga while movie 9 is the only reference for the Cell Games. The Z fighters don't have the same power in ever movie. They are stronger in every movie. Gohan and Goku were not MSSJ in the Perfect Cell Saga. Goku and Gohan were in their resting state when they rested and Goku only showed half of his power during the Perfect Cell Saga to Korrin and before movie 8 release which means Goku was Semi MSSJ in movie 8 and the same power when he and Gohan were resting which is their resting state which was weaker than the power they showed to Cell. I mean, imagine yourself watching DBZ when it was first aired and you watch movie 8 (which was revealed before Cell Games and MSSJ Goku) before you even watched MSSJ Goku, wouldn't you be surprised? Toei copies the facts from the Manga and MSSJ Goku was not made in the Anime so he can't be in the movie. The only power which was shown in the Anime before movie 8 release was Goku and Gohan in their resting state implying that was the power Toei made in movie 8.
Compared to movie 8 Goku and Gohan...
Movie 8 Goku and Gohan look just like the Gohan and Goku who were eating. Note: the Goku and Gohan who were eating are not in their FPSSJ state. They were in their resting SSJ state As Resting MSSJs which means Toei copied this strength since it was the last thing which was shown in the Anime. They had the same power when they rested and not the power when the faced Cell since it was simply never made in the Anime. Toei didn't even know Gohan was above Goku in the Anime and this is why he was weaker than him in movie 8. Not only that but MSSJ has serious eyes and expression while M8 Goku looks like the Goku who was resting and warming up against Cell just before showing his full power.
<div class='spoiler_toggle'>Spoiler: click to toggle</div><div class="spoiler" style="display:none;">
TOEI copied 10 days/warming up MSSJ Goku which means they used 10 days MSSJ Goku in M8 and that's Goku's max.
M8 MSSJ Goku is weaker than USSJ Trunks, equals to Warmed Up Perfect Cell who greatly surpassed 1st Rosat ASSJ Vegeta who equals to his M8 self
Basically it all fits
RSSJ Broly while tanking Vegeta is as strong as USSJ Trunks as he tanks Vegeta's kick better than Cell. RSSJ Broly while tanking Vegeta's kick surpassed M8 Goku and M8 Goku is equal to Initial Perfect Cell who was also surpassed by USSJ Trunks so it fits again
Then Broly makes a big power up which surprises everyone like Goku did when he powered up to 50% which suggests RSSJ Broly's max equals 50% MSSJ Goku and then goes LSSJ which equals Cell Games MSSJ Goku
Cell Games MSSJ Goku and Gohan. Look at the serious eyes.
Look at Trunks's comment when Goku was about to go MSSJ. His eyes are more serious as MSSJ while in movie 8 his eyes looked like his resting state which is basically obvious Toei copied their resting state to the movie since they never had any other power as MSSJ Goku was not revealed or existed in the Anime. Movie 8 Goku looks like the Goku who was warming up vs Cell and was resting. The matter here is that Toei copies facts from the Anime for the movies and Gohan and Goku were not revealed in the Anime by the time they worked on movie 8, they were only revealed in their resting SSJ state implying Goku was in his 10 days SSJ state in movie 8. Gohan being beaten by Broly that easy doesn't necessary proves he was the weakest. Remember Gohan never had a main fight until the Cell Games, this is why he even used Masenko and was beaten so easy since he never showed any great skills.
Movie 9 even supports it by showing M9 Gohan as FP MSSJ. Gohan has the same serious look like his FP MSSJ, same features like the FP MSSJ state. He also has the same golden hair and aura when MSSJ is first shown like in the Cell Games. This is because only M9 refers to the Cell Games. M9 Gohan and Cell Games Gohan have their aura a lot during the fight while M8 Goku and Gohan only had an aura when they first transformed because 10 days SSJs Goku and Gohan never had an aura when they rested.
Now, when we know Toei obviously copied Goku's and Gohan's power when they rested in their resting state and not the power they showed Cell let's movie for more evidences.
Compare the Vegeta in the right side to the Vegeta in this panel below
Compare Vegeta from the left of the concept to Vegeta in that panel
Compare Vegeta from the middle of the concept art to Vegeta in the last panel of the Manga
Compare Vegeta in 3:25 to Vegeta who has the annoyed face in the concept art
Vegeta was also attacking Broly like he did vs Cell when he kicked and blatsed him
They had the same outfit after their 1st Post
Trunks and Vegeta are obviously 1st Post because the movie was produced at that time and they were not in the Manga as 2nd Post vs the Cell Jrs and the katakana on this image reads "Super Vegeta", which is what Vegeta calls himself while using Grade II vs Cell. Toei's design proves it
This is Trunks from the OVA, The Plan To Eradicate The Saiyajins. He has short hair. Remember he had short hair only when Goku and Gohan were out of the Rosat and before Trunks and Vegeta were in the Rosat for the Second time and he also had this hair when during the first days waiting for the Cell Games implying Toei planned the OVA to be in the ten days waiting since Bulma even had in the OVA the same outfit she did in the 10 days waiting and remember movie 8 happened before the OVA and Trunks's and Bulma's appearance also proves Gohan and Goku had the same power they had after their exist from the Rosat and their resting state during the ten days of the Cell Games and this is also evidently the same power the same power they showed vs Broly since Goku mentioned Broly in movie 8, however the Z fighters are stronger in the OVA. This is why Gohan had his Cell Games outfit in the OVA since the OVA was released after the Cell Games. Furthermore, We know M8 Vegeta is based on the same Vegeta who beating Semi Perfect Cell but got beaten by Perfect Cell since he was kicking and blasting Broly at the same way he did vs Cell. M2 Goku was attacking Doctor Wheelo just like he did vs Vegeta and we know, M2 Goku is the same Goku who was fighting Vegeta. M6 Vegeta saved Goku from Cooler just like he did vs vs Android 19 and we know M6 Vegeta is the same Vegeta who beat Android 19.
We know Vegeta and Trunks were weaker in movie 8 since Trunks had short hair in the OVA which means before his second entrance to the Rosat which can tell us Movie 8 Trunks and Vegeta are above the Vegeta and Trunks who fought Perfect Cell but weaker than Cell Games Trunks and Vegeta. We know Gohan and Goku are weaker from the fact that Gohan was wearing his Androids Saga outfit and since MSSJ Goku and Gohan were not revealed in the Anime and Toei obviously copied Gohan and Goku's power when they rested in their 10 days state and Goku was probably in his Resting SSJ Self (last power he showed in the Anime). That proves the main point. The Z fighters were Perfect Cell Saga levels since Toei worked on that saga and not about the Cell Games Saga. This is why the scenes in movie 8 are based on the fight Vegeta and Trunks had vs Broly and Broly's look is based on USSJ Trunks. The Z fighters are stronger in every movie. We know Goku was only revealed in his 10 days SSJ state and he and Gohan's 10 days SSJs state after the exist from the Rosat and not the same power they showed vs Cell. The Z fighters were weaker in movie 8 as they were Perfect Cell Saga levels.
Another evidence which can determine Movie 8 LSSJ Broly power is that movie 8 was released between episodes 176 to 177 just before MSSJ Goku was shown for the first time. How does that have to do with it? It's actually simple. Movie 4 was revealed between episodes 81 to 82 just before Piccolo showed his Super Namek power vs Freeza. We know Slug in movie 4 symbolizes the Super Namek and that's exactly why movie 4 was released between those episodes, It's the same thing about movie 8, it was released between episodes 176 to 177 just before the MSSJ was shown which means Movie 8 LSSJ Broly symbolizes the MSSJ just like in movie 4 when Slug symbolizes the Super Namek.
I mean, Movie 8 LSSJ Broly is also based on USSJ Trunks but a better and faster version and we know MSSJ was the better and next version of the USSJ. Broly was even said to be with that power from birth without training we now you have to master the SSJ in order to be MSSJ. It's basically insinuated in the movie. Even in movie 4, Goku absorbs Piccolo's ki just like Goku absorbed his friends ki from his friends and we can assume that after having the ki from Piccolo and when he used the Kaioken he was as strong as Super Piccolo who beat Second Form Freeza. This is why movie 4 was released just before Piccolo showed his Super Namek to Freeza. M13 was revealed between episodes 270 to 271 while Buuhan was fighting Vegito and Hirudegarn is most likely Buuhan's level so just like M4 and M8, in M13 Goku's DF can be equal to Buuhan. It can be easily the same thing about Goku after absorbing the ki from his friends and being equal to his MSSJ form of the Cell Games. This is what we can conclude if we look at Toei's works. It also took the same number of episodes for Toei to work on movies 4 and 8 and both of those movies are movies before the filler movies of the Freeza and the Cell Arc. However Movie 8 LSSJ Broly can be at best above MSSJ Goku and Gohan of the Cell Games but Full Power Perfect Cell definitely destroys him. People who say otherwise are just trolls considering the fact Toei revealed movie 8 before they even showed MSSJ Goku.
So we have concluded the Z fighters are weaker in movie 8 and this is because they were Perfect Cell Saga levels and also proved that Movie 8 LSSJ Broly might symbolizes the MSSJ form, but the obvious thing is that Perfect Cell would destroy Movie 8 Broly and Broly is not touching Cell till movie 10.
Movie 8 Z Fighters's Levels IMO:
Movie 8 Goku=25% of his Cell Games Self. Cell Games 100% MSSJ Goku > 50% MSSJ Goku (Power Up Suppression vs Korrin) > Resting MSSJ Goku (10 days wait)
Movie 8 Gohan=12% of his Cell Games Self. (He should be 25% of his Cell Games Self just like Goku but he is considered as much weaker due to the fact that he was not known as the strongest at the time of Movie 8 production but just at the very Cell Games)
Movie 8 Vegeta and Trunks=27% of their Cell Games Levels.
Movie 8 Piccolo=27% of his Cell Games Self (Most likely Mid Rosat).
According to Movie 8: Goku > Vegeta > Trunks > Gohan > Piccolo.
Remember, Vegeta was the only one standing when Goku asked for their energy implying Vegeta was the second strongest. Gohan was also shown to be the weakest SSJ. Trunks was taking more damage. That's most likely because Gohan ws considered as the weakest SSJ until the Cell Games.
To determine Movie 8 Broly's power overall. Movie 8 RSSJ Broly was stated to may be stronger than Goku, meaning the gap between RSSJ Broly to Movie 8 Goku (who is considerably weaker than his Cell Games Self) is not big. USSJ Broly tanked Vegeta's kick better than Cell which implies M8 RSSJ Broly is in par with USSJ2 Trunks and it fits perfectly seen as 10 days SSJ Goku should be somewhat weaker than USSJ2 Trunks just like he is somewhat weaker than RSSJ Broly. Then Broly goes LSSJ (which is the better version of the USSJ2 which makes sense for him top be in par with Cell Games FPSSJ Goku) and crushes the Z Fighters with ease. M8 RSSJ when he first faced Base Goku had most of his power restrained as even Base Goku was able to damage him. Later, Broly goes RSSJ and he is unaffected by Vegeta's kick Broly. In that level, Broly should be somewhat stronger than Goku and as strong as USSJ2 Trunks. Then RSSJ Broly powers up and should be at 50% MSSJ Goku's level IMO and then goes LSSJ. Broly also powered up during the movie as LSSJ, when his ki was overflowing.
Goku (Toei Power Up) ~ FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga) > LSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ FPSSJ Kid Gohan > Initial LSSJ Broly ~ FPSSJ Goku (Cell Games) > RSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ 50% MSSJ Goku >> RSSJ Broly (Tanking Vegeta) ~ USSJ2 Trunks > 10 days SSJ Goku
The Daizenshuu says M10 SSJ Broly > FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga)
"He transforms into a Super Saiyan, just like Goku and the others. Because he possessed high battle ability from birth, he is the owner of power that surpasses Goku's."
This the link for the Daizenshuu.
http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz06.php?m=13&id=dbz10#link
Now, in Movie 10, Gohan sees Movie 10 SSJ Broly and says:
"He is a bad a monster as ever and here I am supposed to have powered up considerably since back then"
According to Gohan's reaction, M10 SSJ Broly > M8 LSSJ Broly just like M10 SSJ Broly > FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga) which can easily imply M8 LSSJ Broly ~ FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga) even though I pointed out he is Cell Games FPSSJ Gohan's level at most. It's not the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is if M8 LSSJ Broly is so tough and stronger than Cell so why is SSJ state in M10 which is implied to be stronger than M8 LSSJ Broly is just > Buu Saga FPSSJ Goku? FPSSJ Goku in the Buu Saga should still be quite weaker than Perfect Cell. This alone already destroys the argument of M8 Broly being anything compared to FP PC.
Plus, it's supported by the fact that M8 LSSJ Broly is weaker than Hatchiyack who is Perfect Cell's rival based on those evidence.
Hatchiyack is an android just like Cell.
Hatchiyack’s body resembles Cell’s. Hatchiyack's expressions are also similar to Cell's.
Doctor Lychee is similar to Doctor Gero.
Doctor Lychee’s super computer is very similar to Doctor Gero’s super computer for perpetuating its creator hatred and continuing the fight even after its doctor’s death.
When Hatchiyack was born, Lychee said “Go absorb my grudge my hatred and awaken your PERFECT form†The same thing that was said to Cell since Gero told Cell to go absorb 18 and 17 and he can achieve his perfect form.
When Hatchiyack was born he had the same green aura Cell did.
Hatchiyack’s first victim was Vegeta just like Cell when he achieved his perfect form.
Vegeta was amazed when he saw his Final Flash did nothing to Hatchiyack just like he was when his attack couldn't hurt Cell. Even when Vegeta attacked Hatchiyack with his Final Flash, Hatchiyack's head was only shown when the attack hit him just like Cell.
Hatchiyack was testing his body after he was born like Cell did.
It's pretty obvious Hatchiyack is Toei's version for Cell.
Perfect Cell >/~ Base Hatchiyack
Buff Perfect Cell >/~ Giant Hatchiyack (Both were huge)
Super Perfect Cell >/~ Super Hatchiyack
Hatchiyack should also be considerably stronger than M8 LSSJ Broly as King Kai was shocked saying he had never felt such a great ki.
With all of that we get:
Super Perfect Cell >/~ Super Hatchiyack > Buff Cell >/~ Giant Hatchiyack > Full Power Perfect Cell >/~ Hatchiyack >/~ M10 SSJ Broly > Goku (Toei Power Up) ~ FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga) > LSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ FPSSJ Kid Gohan > Initial LSSJ Broly ~ FPSSJ Goku (Cell Games) > RSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ 50% MSSJ Goku > RSSJ Broly (Tanking Vegeta) ~ USSJ2 Trunks > 10 days SSJ Goku.
I will go even furthermore to debunk the things that Broly Fanboys overall bring in a debate to prove Movie 8 LSSJ Broly > Perfect Cell
1. Movie 8 LSSJ Broly tanked a FP Kamehameha from Goku so he has to be at least 4X stronger than Goku since the ki amplification in the Saiyan Saga was over 2X.
Counter Argument: Broly tanking a Kamehameha vs Goku doesn't mean he is 4X stronger than him or even more. This is Toei's logic and the Anime shows that a Cell Jr who was just somewhat stronger than SSJ Vegeta could deflect his Final Flash which was also charged for a longer time than Goku did vs Broly. If a Cell Jr who was just somewhat stronger than SSJ Vegeta was able to deflect SSJ Vegeta's Final Flash then LSSJ Broly should not be more than 2.5X Goku.
2. Broly tanked the same Kamehameha Cell did and never got scratched while Cell's upper body was blown away so that's proof Movie 8 LSSJ Broly > Perfect Cell.
Counter Argument: The Goku who Broly fought is weaker than the Goku who Cell fought as proven in this thread. Besides, Goku charged his Kamehameha for a much longer time than he did vs Broly and was shown exhausted vs Cell with Cell commenting Goku poured most of his ki into his attack. However, after attacking Broly, Goku was just stunned his attack did nothing but he was not drained of his ki. The Cell who Goku fought was highly suppressed and also caught off guard.
3. Broly beat the Z Fighters easily so he is stronger than Perfect Cell. Perfect Cell clearly can't beat the Z Fighters.
Counter Argument: This is completely false as the same Goku said that the only way they can beat Cell is if Gohan gets mad and goes SSJ2. Trunks told Krillin to throw Goku a Senzu Bean so they can all fight together so they might be able to beat Cell since he got weak which suggests that even a tired highly suppressed Cell can destroy them all without Goku's help, Vegeta tells Trunks to shut up and says that the highly suppressed Cell is still one or two steps above Goku. Plus, Cell was confident he can beat SSJ2 Kid Gohan even after seeing how he one shotted the Cell Jrs who were able to beat the Z Fighters. The Z Fighters being shocked at Cell's strength after he powered up to FP and were not even sure SSJ2 Kid Gohan would be able to win, and again Broly faced much Weaker Z Fighters.
4. SSJ2 is stated to be just twice as strong as a SSJ in the SEG so Perfect Cell is surely weaker than Movie 8 LSSJ Broly because he was at least over 2X stronger than Movie 8 Goku.
Counter Argument: The SEG is not realible and SSJ2 Kid Gohan being at less than half oof his power vs SPC in the beam struggle clearly debunks the SSJ2=2X SSJ.
5. Vegeta attacked SPC with his blasts and SPC braced himself while Movie 8 LSSJ Broly went through his blasts.
Counter Argument: Broly faced 1st Post ASSJ Vegeta as this was the time line of Movie 8's Production. This is why Broly went through ASSJ Vegeta's blasts because it's based on 1st Post ASSJ Vegeta's blasts vs Perfect Cell. Plus, Cell bracing himself proves nothing. Vegeta and Nappa braced themselves from Krillin's blasts and it was most likely to build up drama. It's the same thing about Cell who was anyway not even scratched and also got blasted by a stronger Vegeta.
Now, to analyse M10 LSSJ Broly's power.
Movie 10
As I said above, Movie 10 SSJ Broly was stated in the Daizenshuu to be > MSSJ Goku (Buu Arc).
Broly also got much much stronger due to his haxed Zenkai as stated in the Daizenshuu and Toriyama's sketches.
We know Broly beat SSJ2 Adult Gohan who was the weakest SSJ2. I am going to address the annoying rumour about Gohan being Toei Haxed and stronger than his canon counterpart.
We will start with the thing which makes some people say Gohan was stronger in movie 10, and this reason is because he started his fight against Broly in base form and did better than SSJ Goten and Trunks so that "obiovusly" makes him stronger than his Anime counterpart. Let's get something clear here. Everyone in Toei's production starts his fight vs in base form. Base Goku was even with Cooler in movie 5, Base Goku was even with Meta Cooler in movie 6, Base Goku, Base Vegeta and Base Trunks were even with Androids 13, 15 and 14, Base Vegito was even with Buuhan etc, etc. Base Gohan was keeping up with Dabura in the Anime. Dabura was suppressed but this Suppressed Dabura was stated by Goku to be Cell's level and after powering up Goku said he was stronger than he fought. So Gohan was even with someone who is Cell's level and we know he got weaker. Base Vegito was apperently even with Buuhan and Anime Base Vegito looked stronger than Manga Base Vegito, however Buuhan was able to lay some hits on SSJ Vegito in the Anime and the Anime added another filler when Buuhan uses his dimmension scream and SSJ Vegito was struggling against him. So, does that mean Anime Base Vegito>Manga Base Vegito BUT Manga SSJ Vegito>Anime SSJ Vegito?? Does that make sense?
When I get into that. Basically, Toei makes everyone start his fight in his base form for the sake of the drama and not because Gohan was stronger. Base Gohan was even with Dabura who is Cell's level and we know Cell would destroy SSJ Trunks or SSJ Goten with utter ease. Base Gohan even able to kick Dabura during their fight while he never even scratched SSJ Broly. Not to mention that Toei contradicts itself like Vegito vs Buuhan. Gohan was able to tank Broly's blast doesn't mean he was a stronger Gohan. Kid Buu was fighting SSJ2 Goku and Goku was able to tank Kid Buu's strongest blast and Anime Kid Buu>Buuhan. However we know that in the Anime SSJ2 Goku was as strong as Majin Vegeta who got his ***** kicked by Fat Buu. If SSJ2 Goku is weaker than Fat Buu so how come he can suddenly be able to fight evenly with Kid Buu who was stated in the Anime to be stronger than Buuhan?
Same thing happened in the Anime with Goku and Gotenks, in the Anime Goku is the strongest and stronger than Gotenks however Toei added filler when Gotenks and Goku were taking a bath and Base Goku was shown weaker than Base Gotenks and had to go SSJ so if we follow that logic we get: SSJ3 Goku>SSJ3 Gotenks BUT Base Gotenks>Base Goku.Movies are the same since movies are fillers as well. This is once again Toei contradicts everything just like SSJ Goku can keep up with Mystic Gohan and such. The only reason Gohan was also able to tank Broly's blast was probably because Toei wanted him to get mad after seeing everyone was half dead so he would be able to access his transformation as a SSJ2 just like in the World Tourment.Base Saiyan keeping up vs SSJ level character is not haxed. Yes, it's Toei's logic but just for the sake of the Drama. Kid Buu>Buuhan is haxed, Goku being the god of the Anime is haxed. Not only that but in the beam struggle SSJ Goten was shown stronger than Base Gohan which supports my point. Videl was afraid of a mere Dinasour but was able to survive a punch from SSJ Broly. That means nothing but just Toei wanting to build up drama.
Another thing which makes some people say Gohan was stronger in the movie than in his Anime counterpart is the fact that he said he had powered up from movie 8 so that means Gohan "trained" in the 7 years between the Cell Games to the Buu Arc but in an alternative universe. However, this is false. Gohan's line was misinterpetated by Broly fanboys. The fact that Gohan said he had powered up from movie 8 only proves the Z fighters were weaker in movie 8 than their Cell Games counterparts as Toei releaved the Cell Games after they made movie 8 and started to work on movie 8 when Goku and Gohan were in the Rosat. This is why Gohan had his Androids Saga outfit and was weaker than Goku. The Z fighters were Perfect Cell Saga levels as that was the saga that Toei worked on movie 8. This is the only reason why Gohan said that line because the Z fighters were just weaker in movie 8 and not because Gohan trained. People who say that are idiots who refuse to look at the context of the movies.If Gohan "trained" in the 7 years between the Cell Games to the Buu Arc so how come he knows Videl, he needs anger in order to go SSJ2 and couldn't go SSJ2 when he fired the kamehameha vs Broly?? Even if Gohan was half dead when he was about to fire his kamehameha against Broly, he should still be able to go SSJ2 if he apperently trained during the 7 years gap between the Cell Games and the Buu Arc since BOTH Goku and Vegeta were able to go SSJ2 when they were half dead because they were trained and and mastered the SSJ2 unlike Gohan who was weaker and needed anger in order to go SSJ2 because he never trained. Toei even showed Videl, Trunks and Goten were half dead so Gohan would be angry so he can go SSJ2 since he can't do it just like that since he was weaker and never trained.
The scene when Gohan was shown angry after Videl, Trunks and Goten were half dead so he would be angry so he would be able to go SSJ2 is obviously based on the scene when Gohan saw Videl half dead vs Spopovitch because Movie 10 Gohan is based on Gohan from the world tourment. SSJ Goku even looked much stronger than SSJ Gohan in the beam struggle since if SSJ Goku was weaker than SSJ Gohan, his kamehameha wouldn't do so much better and when Goku arrived they were able to overpower Broly's blast for a while. Now, to make something clear. People most likely state Toei makes the Character haxed in ever movie which is not really true. Toei makes the characters haxed in the Anime and just copy everything from the Anime to the movies.
The final thing which destroys the whole argument of Gohan being haxed is the fact that in M11, Android 18 damands from Mister Satan her prize for letting her win in the World Tourment. That means Movie 11 follows the normal time line. The Broly Movies take place in the same time line and if Movie 11 takes place in the normal time line so did Movie 10 which means M10 Gohan is the same one from the World Tourment
Movies=Anime=/=Manga
Anime and movies are the same in terms of strength because both Anime and movies are Toei.The characters who are haxed in the movies are haxed in the Anime.
Gohan being haxed in Movie 10 is unlikely and clearly false IMO.
Gohan was still able to inflict some damage to Broly and those pictures indicate so.
Gohan was standing right in front of Broly, kicking him so Broly was not off guard. Gohan being able to do all of that to Broly proves Broly should not be stronger than SSJ2 Goku since SSJ2 Goku is equal to SSJ2 Majin Vegeta who is considerably stronger than his Pre Majin SSJ2 (seen at how Spopovich got much stronger after being Majin) who considered SSJ2 Gohan trash so I don't think SSJ2 Adult Gohan can even touch SSJ2 Goku like he did vs Movie 10 LSSJ Broly. Plus, Goku beat Broly in hell in the end of Movie 11 and just used SSJ2 because SSJ3 Goku never existed at that time as he was barely drawn in the Manga and Goku told Fat Janemba he was the only one besides Majin Buu to push him to SSJ3. The Broly movies also follow the time line of Movie 12 because Paragus appear with the dead villians in Movie 12. Paikuhan went with Goku not because SSJ2 Goku needs help. Paikuhan goes with Goku anywhere, even in Movie 12, Paikuhan went with Goku even though Goku and PIikkon thought they can easily save King Yamma. Paikuhan and Goku are the Other World's Saviors.
In Movie 12 Goku also says that Fat Janemba is the strongest ki he had ever felt meaning Fat Janemba > Fat Buu.
That means Movie 10 LSSJ Broly is at least weaker than the likes of Fat Buu and Fat Janemba. Movie 12 is in the same time line of the Broy Movies sine Paragus appear with the dead guys in Movie 12.
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.6-7
Goku: “Damn it! If either Vegeta or Gohan were alive, maybe we could have managed something…â€
Piccolo: “…No, it probably wouldn’t matter how many people went at him…He wasn’t at that level…â€
Here, Piccolo states that the Fat Buu who beat Vegeta can beat SSJ2 Goku, SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku. Broly clearly can't do it seeing as how the weakest SSJ2 was able to damage him and the fact that he was beaten by SSJ2 Adult Gohan, SSJ Goten and MSSJ Goku contributing his ki to them.
The Fat Buu who fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is also weaker than the Fat Buu who fought SSJ3 Goku seen as how Fat Buu gave his evil look at Goku and Fat Buu was stated to be stronger as he gives his evil look. That means M10 LSSJ Broly is weaker than the Fat Buu who Vegeta fought who is weaker than the Fat Buu who Goku fought who is weaker than Fat Janemba. We can conclude that the Fat Buu who Vegeta fought is in Evil Buu's level seen as the Fat Buu who Goku fought was stronger than the one who Vegeta fought and Evil Buu is most of the power of the Fat Buu who Goku fought. That would mean M10 LSSJ Broly is at best Good Buu's level as he was beaten by SSJ2 Adult Gohan, SSJ Goten and MSSJ Goku contributing his ki to them and that's also barely but it's supported by the Daizenshuu saying M10 SSJ Broly > MSSJ Goku (Buu Saga). That would mean M10 LSSJ Broly is at best a notch above the likes of SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku which is Good Buu's level.
Now, to why Goku was not SSJ2 in Movie 10.
There have been much debates over Goku was a SSJ2 or just a SSJ in the end of the beam struggle. I am going to prove that he was actually a SSJ until the very end.
Goku, Gohan and Goten are all shown as SSJs in this picture.
This is a Movie 10 drawing from the Daizenshuu which shows Gohan as a SSJ and Goku's hair like SSJ style.
However, this is another Daizenshuu drawing which shows Goku like a SSJ2. However, Goten's hair also stands more than normal. That proves that posters like that from the Daizenshuu can't be taken too seriously because they contradict themselves all the time.
However, this is a picture from the movie showing Gohan has two bangs stand after Goku said "now" implying he might had been SSJ till the end.
Another drawing which show Gohan as a SSJ2 and Goku as a SSJ.
Another poster showing Goku and Goten are SSJs while Gohan was SSJ2.
As you can see, there are posters which support that Gohan and Goku were just SSJs and others which show Goku and Gohan have SSJ2 hair which means they contradict themselves and can't really be used for a total proof.
Now, let's get into the SSJ2 appearance.
As you can see, SSJ2 Goku has 1 bang in the middle of his har and 1 small bang in any side of his hair. However, Goku in Movie 10 just had 1 bang stands after saying "now" which indicates that the reason why his hair changed was just because it got pushed back by the attack after saying "now"and there are far more evidence to support it as true.
This is Goku in the Rosat when he powered up, you can clearly see that his hair changed into just 1 bang in the middle of his hair, similliar to Goku in Movie 10.
Goku fired a Kamehameha at Freeza and had one bang stands just like in the Rosat and in Movie 10. Where I get into that, basically when Gokuy powers up to FP, his hair chages into one bang stands as seen in the events I just showed while SSJ2 has two small bangs in the sides. Goku's hair in Movie 10 is the same thing like in the Rosat and when he attacked Freeza which is just the result of going FP. If Gokudid use SSJ2 in Movie 10 so he should have the same appearance he had vs Fat Buu.
Goku has 1 bang stands here when he escaped from Kid Buu's blast but he was a SSJ. Remember, this is also after the SSJ2 Concept was known.
Goku having one bang is either when he uses max power, max speed, goes all out or fires a Kamehameha. Goku having 1 bang stands in the middle of his hair and two small bangs in the sides is SSJ2.
Now, let's get into the real argument to why Goku was not SSJ2.
Movie 10 was revealed when SSJ2 Goku was barely finished to be drawn in the Manga. It makes no sense that Goku can go SSJ2 in Movie 10 if the Manga just revealed his SSJ2 a few days before. Plus, Toei overall shows the forms in the Anime before showing it in the movies because the Anime came first. SSJ2 Goku was revealed in the Anime far after Movie 10 was revealed. Toei never even showed SSJ3 Gotenks and Mystic Gohan in Movie 12 because they were not revealed in the Anime. Saying Toei showing a form in the movie before showing it in the Anime is like saying the Anime can show the events before the Manga did. Toei even waited until SSJ Vegeta would be introduced in the Anime so they can release Movie 6 despite the fact they copied his look from the Manga. Same case happened in Movie 10. Toei copied SSJ2 Gohan from the Manga but waited until his SSJ2 would be shown in the Anime. Toei showed the concept art for SSJ2 Gohan but never did with Goku implying he never was a SSJ2 somply because it was barely drawn in the Manga.
Manga > Anime > Movies.
Since SSJ2 Goku was barely drawn in the Manga, it makes no sense he can exist in Movie 10. Think about it, why would Goku go SSJ2 if the Omega Blaster got weaker and was most likely as weak as the first one when Goku arrived and they overpowered it? It makes no sense.
There are even evidence to support Goku's appearance in the movie being the same like Gohan when he beat Cell.
Goten never said "I wish dad was here" In the Japanese dub, Goten says "Shenron, help us" and the DragonBalls SEEMINGLY hear Goten. Then, Goku arrives. Notice when Goku arrives, he has a strange aura surrounding his body which shows it was just his spirit. Goku encourging his sons like he did with Gohan vs Cell and Trunks distracted Broly like Vegeta did vs Cell is the same so why should Goku's appearance be any different?
Goku is shown to be behind Gohan and Goten in the end of the beam struggle. Why is he behind? Yes, he is behind them, supporting them so they can use FP just like he did with Gohan vs Cell. In fact if you watch the Japanese dub, whenever someone transforms or goes FP, there is a background noise and Goku said "now" very quitely after his hair changed. The Daizenshuu even says "Is the Goku who appeared was real or not?" insinuating Goku's appearance there was just like with Gohan when he beat Cell. Goku doesn't have vody so he can't be real. Plus, the Dragon Balls should grant two wishes while it seemingly granted one and scattered. The Daizenshuu also says that Goku was donating his ki to Gohan which is also stated by Gohan in the Anime. That can easily be the case for Movie 10 Goku as his sons felt his present and ki in both events. Broly seeing Goku is also just to show that they are rivals IMO. Goku is after all Broly's number 1 enemy since they were babies.
Broly was beaten by SSJ2 Gohan + SSJ Goten + MSSJ Goku donating his ki like he did with Gohan vs Cell is implied.
Now, I am going to counter some points that I know Broly Supporters would bring in a debate.
1. Goku was shown as a SSJ in Movie 4 despite the fact that he was not in the Manga so Toei just shows their forms as they lie. That means Goku can easily be SSJ2 in Movie 101.
Counter Argument: The only reason why Goku had appeared as a SSJ is because Movie 4 is based on the Ginyu Saga where Vegeta describes Goku as the SSJ. This is why King Kai's words are the same like Vegeta when he saw Goku on Namek. There were statements about SSJ Goku in the Anime while there is absoluterly no statement or hint in the Anime that Goku has SSJ2. Plus, it's not like Toei showed the real SSJ design. They just showed their own form based on the Ginyu Saga events.
2. Goku used Kaioken X10 in the Movie 3 so thatshows Toei can do what they want.
Counter Argument: Showing a Kaioken Multiplier is very different than showing a form since it was not drawn yet. Besides, Toei most likely followed the logic of Saiyan Saga Goku who used Kaioken X4 at 8,200 so most likely followed math logic but never knew it was the case based on the fact that Toriyama had not made the Freeza Saga at that time and Goku being able to use Kaioken X20.
3. Goku's hair did change while Goten's hair didn't proving Goku was a SSJ2 in the end of the Kamehameha.
Counter Argument: If you notice, Goten's hair overall almost doesn't change like Goku when he powered up. Goku's hair changes when he fires a Kamehameha or power up to max like in the Rosat and vs Freeza but Goten's hair almost never did.
Goten's hair doesn't change when he powers up or uses Kamehameha at FP like Goku.
With all of this, I think Goku being SSJ2 in Movie 10 is unlikely. Gohan going SSJ2 in the end is true though.
Now to counter some point that I have heard about Piccolo who "indirectly states" SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Adult Gohan are in the same ballpark.
Counter Argument: Piccolo never witnessed Gohan's fight vs Dabura. From the fact that BOTH Vegeta and Goku were surprised at how weak Gohan had become when he fought Dabura even after sensing his ki in the World Tourment proves Gohan is much weaker than they thought. There is no reason Piccolo should know how weak Gohan is then even if he felt his ki like Goku and Vegeta did and it's supported by the fact Piccolo seemed to think SSJ2 Teen Gohan and SSJ2 Kid Gohan are in the same level which is wrong. As we know sensing ki is not always the case as Gohan felt Cell's ki after he returned and still thought he could win. However, he just realized how strong Cell was after Cell used his ki blast. The difference between SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Adult Gohan has to be extremely massive because SSJ2 Majin Vegeta should be much stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta who considered SSJ2 Adult Gohan trash because he is much weaker than when he was a kid.
With all of that we get:
SSJ3 Goku > Fat Janemba > Fat Buu (Goku's Fight) > Fat Buu (Vegeta's Fight) ~ Evil Buu > Good Buu >/~ Movie 10 LSSJ Broly (At Best) > SSJ2 Goku ~ SSJ2 Majin Vegeta > Movie 10 LSSJ Broly (Most Likely) > Super Perfect Cell >/~ Super Hatchiyack > Buff Cell >/~ Giant Hatchiyack > Full Power Perfect Cell >/~ Hatchiyack >/~ M10 SSJ Broly > Goku (Toei Power Up) ~ FPSSJ Goku (Buu Saga) > LSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ FPSSJ Kid Gohan > Initial LSSJ Broly ~ FPSSJ Goku (Cell Games) > RSSJ Broly (Full Power) ~ 50% MSSJ Goku > RSSJ Broly (Tanking Vegeta) ~ USSJ2 Trunks > 10 days SSJ Goku.</div>
I need to reney it and make it shorter plus more evidence on time line and such though but it still proves you wrong
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