Can someone prove that Gotenks SSJ3 > Gogeta SSJ

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

People whom want to make the multiple statements of Pure Boo being the strongest Boo look ridiculous even though the only Boo's being taken into account are Fat and Super Boo.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Lol, this is so stupid:

Vol. 42 / Chp. 510
Even a full power Goku can't defeat him.

Your ridiculous manipulation changes nothing. It says Goku couldn't defeat him at full-power. There's no other interpretation to draw from that other than what it says. Goku said they'd train so they wouldn't lose next time. It's pretty obvious he was never stronger than Kid Boo. Go ahead and change the meaning of it because that's what you do.

Super Saiyan 3 drains his Chi. He had fought Kid Boo for awhile already and obviously used up energy. The idea that he'd still be in tip-top shape in an unstable form in a living body is illogical. Goku was never stronger than Kid Boo. Creating an attack powerful enough to wipe him out was what he intended to do. Kid Boo created an attack that Goku couldn't stop at all..and with no effort.

Yeah, it is. If the same components are utilized for the Fusion in both instances, then it's obvious Vegito>Gogeta.

Potara
First Appearance: chapter 501
Category: miscellaneous
Explanation: Ear decorations worn by Kaioshins and their attendants for generations. Despite being worn so casually, they’re actually an incredible power-up item. The Elder Kaioshin gave them to Goku as a trump card for defeating Majin Buu.
Special Characteristics: To use them, the two people who will merge simply each take one of the two earrings and put in on their left or right ear, respectively. Furthermore, after merging the power is greater than with Fusion. However, the two people will automatically merge as soon as the earrings are put on, and in principle will be unable to ever split up again, so caution is needed when handling them. The merged person will only split up when touched by the air inside Majin Buu’s body. Also, while with Fusion the post-merged clothing is the native dress of the people of Planet Metamor, when merging with the Potara not only are the two people’s bodies mixed together, but their clothing is as well. In addition, pathetically enough the East Kaioshin and his attendant Kibito merged together without knowing a thing about Potara fusion. (Daizenshuu 4, p.163)

Come up with another excuse to sustain the drivel.

 

[Void]

Hahahaha, I love that even the Daiz outright calls Kaioshin pathetic.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Also, where is this Kid Boo being the strongest Boo said outside of the Anime?

Lol, and trying to say it's only talking about the Boo's you want it to be referring to doesn't make it a fact.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Ugh, ignore.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku says that his SSJ3 form wasn't at max power. Goku stated that he could wipe out Pure Boo as a fully powered SSJ3. SSJ3 is his full power and he couldn't beat Boo. That's all it means. That's what the Daizenshuu is referring to since it states that Goku couldn't beat him in that state yet Goku himself states that he can at max power.

I already know about the Potara entry. It just means that the Potara is stronger, not that Vegito>Gogeta. It's stated otherwise, so it doesn't matter how many denial ridden conclusions you come to. The Dance is better balanced, just like SSJ is better balanced than Grade 3.

 

[p123]

I've always liked the idea of Gogeta being one form behind Vegetto more or less.

I doubt it was AT's intention to make Gogeta weak. I think Super Saiyan Gogeta > Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is very possible.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Again, no. There's nothing about a "fully powered" anything. Goku only says he hasn't had a chance to wipe him out when replying to the suggestion that he gather his Chi (obviously an attack) and wipe him out with it. Goku never had a chance to gather the Chi to do it. That in no way means he never fought at full-power. That's literally something you added. From Goku's own words, they'd need to train so they wouldn't lose if Kid Boo returned in the future. That means Goku isn't stronger than Kid Boo. Period.

No, it quite clearly means Vegito>Gogeta. Your shitty interpretation isn't required.

That's almost as bad as your Gotenks perfecting the Fusion theory was. Even better, the Manga already said they perfected it before entering the rosat.

 

[Pyro]

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8331750&t=8307882

That's what I think.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku states that he never had a chance to gather his ki throughout the fight then goes on to say that he got close to full power, therefore the context is him getting to 100% SSJ3 power power then launching an attack in that state. Come on, this should be simple enough for anyone with a triple digit IQ.

Vegito>Gogeta is your interpretation since the entry doesn't say that, it just says that the Potara is stronger. Gogeta and Vegito are stated to be equals. The Dance is stated to be better balanced than the Potara, just like SSJ is better balanced than Grade 3 for example. That isn't my interpretation. Stay biased though. Your denial is entertaining.

 

[p123]

That's totally valid too KP. I think that's a bit much, but nowhere is it suggested that Potara is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fusion. Which is how a lot of people have it.

Explaining exactly how Gogeta ends up being >>>>> Gotenks probably has to come down to full power being the baseline for one's power.

I'm guessing a simple method would be that you take something like the highest powers of the two people, add it together and divide by two and we can get the base power of the fusion.

Something like that. Which is how we can explain Gohkan > Gogeta > Gotenks. Which makes sense to have it as.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

What part of Goku had already been fighting Kid Boo for awhile aren't you understanding? What part of Super Saiyan 3 uses up an insane amount of Chi (Goku's words) in a living body aren't you understanding? Did you miss the part where he complained about Kid Boo's stamina never going down? It should be simple enough for anyone with a triple digit IQ to understand that a battle worn Goku isn't the same as one who started the fight at full-power. The part where he "got close to full-power" was when he was gathering the power for the attack. Now tell me where it said Goku never fought at full-power at any point? I'd like to see the quote.

-The Daizenshuu says Goku can't beat Kid Boo at full-power
-Goku says they should train so they won't lose to Kid Boo again

But Goku is supposed to be stronger, somehow? Nope.

It isn't my interpretation. It's literally right there for anyone who isn't focused on being hypocritical to understand.

Goku+Vegeta=Gogeta
Goku+Vegeta=Vegito
Potara>Fusion
Vegito>Gogeta

Enjoy that hypocrisy.

 

[Pyro]

Goku: 1 -> 10 -> 20 -> 80
Vegeta: 1 -> 10 -> 20
Gogeta: 100 / 2 = 50 -> 500 -> 1,000 -> 4,000

OK, that doesn't look too bad. Base Gogeta is still more than double the Super Saiyan 2 power of the adults, but he's significantly weaker than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, and I don't think that's correct unless you ignore post-RoSaT Base Gotenks. Super Saiyan 3 Gogeta being 50x stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku doesn't sound impressive enough IMO.

Goten: 0.5 -> 5
Trunks: 0.5 -> 5
Gotenks: 10 / 2 = 5 -> 50 -> 100 -> 400

I don't think that makes sense in Gotenks' case because his pre-RoSaT Base power was implied to be astonishing, whereas the Super Saiyan kids were insignificant cunts. Then there's post-RoSaT Base Gotenks, so... And then Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks ends up at 80% of Super Saiyan Gogeta, unless we take away his Super Saiyan 2 form.

 

[p123]

When you still have to add the variable in there... You get their base number and multiple it.

Goten and Trunks having Super Saiyan 2 allows for Base > Ssj I think...

So something like this...


Gohan 2,500
Goku 250
Vegeta 100
Kids Post 60
Kids Pre 15

I think that makes it work. Just give the kids Super Saiyan 2 (I know, I know) and the formula should work...



Gohan + Goku = 1375
Goku + Vegeta = 175
Kids Post = 60
Kids Pre = 15


Take that number and multiple it by whatever is needed to make Base Gotenks Pre and Post work and you have your answer.

You have

Gokan >>>> Gogeta >>> Kids Post >> Kids Pre

Simple. One leap of faith required of course (boys having Ssj2), but all workarounds for this fusion nonsense require at least one leap of faith one way or another. At least this seems logical.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku stated that he could beat Boo as a max power SSJ3. He states that he never had the chance to gather ki, so he was never at full power. He can't use a max power SSJ3 during the Boo arc without charging ki for a minute.
The part where he got "close to full power" was when he was gathering ki. He wasn't charging any attack. SSJ3 is Goku's full power and Goku couldn't beat him in that state. That's all the Daizenshuu refers to, especially when Goku says he can as a max power SSJ3. Simple stuff to anyone with a triple digit IQ.


>Implying that there's a static formula for fusion when that's never stated.
Neither Gogeta or Vegito is just Goku+Vegeta. They combine the powers in different ways. The Potara is stronger as stated. The Dance is better balanced as stated. Gogeta beating Vegito in a battle of less than 30 minutes is stated. Literally a Grade 3 vs SSJ example, yet you can't understand something so simple. The only one arguing hypotheticals is you. The Potara is stronger than the Dance, but Vegito isn't stronger than Gogeta as stated.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Why do you keep making stuff up? He literally says he never had the opportunity to gather the Chi for the attack and says:

Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”

Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”

Goku: “Sh-shit…! It-it’s already over 1 minute, but…N-not yet! I still can’t wipe out Boo with this much…!

So he's quite clearly referring to an attack because Kid Boo isn't getting wiped out with punches. Goku never having the chance to gather enough Chi during the battle to wipe Kid Boo out=/=Goku was never at full-power. Goku said he was going to go all-out or they'd be finished, and proceeded to fight Boo and complain about his stamina never going down.

Goku was battle worn by the time Vegeta intervened, so he obviously wouldn't be at full-power anymore. The Daizenshuu is talking about Goku, period. It means he can't beat Kid Boo at any state as a Super Saiyan 3. By Goku's own admission, he can't beat Kid Boo and needs to train for his return so they could win against him. Goku isn't stronger. That alone confirms he isn't. No amount of cherry-picking will change that.

His full-power being his Super Saiyan 3 would presumably be Goku at his best--not some gimped version to further your ridiculous logic. It would've just said Super Saiyan 3 if that were the case. Stop.

You're wrong, as usual, and need to introduce ridiculous logic to sustain a point. There's no "max power Super Saiyan 3" stated anywhere. Please tell me where this state is mentioned anywhere. You can't.

Yeah, that comparison is lol since Grade 3 and Super Saiyan aren't even equal. You're not even trying to make sense at this point. First they're equals, then Gogeta is better balanced, and now it's a Grade 3 comparison where one has glaring weaknesses and the other doesn't. More and more drivel. Considering you're the same guy who said Gotenks got stronger by perfecting the dance (something that already happened before the rosat) instead of training, this is kinda your thing.

 

[Pyro]

I think SSJ3 Goku can be stronger than Kid Boo by a small amount, but the drain of the form brings him down so quickly that he's on the losing end in minutes. Thus he'd have to train to overcome that obstacle.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That's a fair point.

This is exactly why I always thought he started out at full-power. After fighting someone who could regenerate with no issue, and using lots of Chi (from the transformation alone as well as attacks), there's no reason why Goku would remain at the same level. By his own admission, the transformation eats up an excessive amount of Chi. It also seems more logical to me that he'd actually go all-out like he said because it seems counterproductive to not fight at his best given the situation--and the fact that it's an unstable transformation.

That's not to say Goku's KMHMH wouldn't have been successful. I just don't think it's enough to say Goku>Kid Boo. Kid Boo could easily wipe Goku out with a Vanishing Ball as well. Goku knew enough to not even want to consider stopping the attack.

 

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

It clearly states in no uncertain terms that he never "gathered his ki with all his might", so his SSJ3 was never max powered. He then states that he got close to full power after charging ki. It doesn't matter what you think the Daizenshuu should have said in your opinion. The rest is drivel that I already disproved multiple times.

The Potara is stronger. The Dance is better balanced. Gogeta and Vegito are equals power wise, but Gogeta makes better use of the power of the fusees. Not hard to understand. All of these are stated. Guess that's the downside of a single digit IQ.

Edit: Also, I never said anything about Goten and Trunks "mastering the dance after the Rosat". More stupidity on your end.

 

[p123]

The only issue with that is that Goku is never shown to have any sort of advantage. He's on even terms throughout the whole short fight. Best to make them equals imo.