Chi-Chi in the 23rd Budokai

[ahill1]

@Papasmurf how strong do you think weighted Goku (against Chi Chi) was? At least stronger than his 22nd Budokai self, right?

He was already stronger than his 22nd self when he KO'd Chappa with a tap I'd say.

how high do u think chapa-o was at the 23 tenkaichi-budokai???

I'd think Chapa-o at least surpassed the Goku who defeated him in the last tournament.

 

[Papasmurf]

Not even Kuririn should be above Piccolo Daimao imo. Goku surpassing his PD arc self was a feat to Ten, and his speed was unchanged, yet even that was a level above Kuririn.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

He was already stronger than his 22nd self when he KO'd Chappa with a tap I'd say.

how high do u think chapa-o was at the 23 tenkaichi-budokai???

I'd think Chapa-o at least surpassed the Goku who defeated him in the last tournament.

So about 22nd-tournament Kuririn level???

 

[ahill1]

how high do u think chapa-o was at the 23 tenkaichi-budokai???

I'd think Chapa-o at least surpassed the Goku who defeated him in the last tournament.

So about 22nd-tournament Kuririn level???

Even stronger, since I have Kuririn equal to the Goku who fought Chapa-o.

@Papasmurf how about Goku saying Piccolo got stronger even though he only defeated some random fighters? Was he factoring he had way more power than that?

 

[Papasmurf]

Obviously. Ten originally figured he was just some Mazoku leftover until he defeated human-Kami. I don't think he showed power any greater than Drum at best while in the prelims.

 

[ahill1]

Obviously. Ten originally figured he was just some Mazoku leftover until he defeated human-Kami. I don't think he showed power any greater than Drum at best while in the prelims.

I think he showed strength at least on par with young Piccolo when he defeated Kuririn.

 

[sei'taer]

Tao was out to kill Ten and Ten actually fought semi-seriously early on to get a feel of Tao's abilities while Goku never had the impetus to beat up Chi-Chi so I don't find the two equitable. Especially when Tao pulled a knife and tried to kill Ten with a cybernetic cannon while Chi-Chi was just mad Goku forgot who she was

True, but I don't see Tao ever being able to do the same against Tien even if he were in Chi-Chi's shoes.

Besides I don't really think she's stronger than Tao.

Shouldn't Chaozu have shown up on the scouter then, since he is implied to be stronger than Roshi.

You got me there.

Still Chi-chi doesn't have any statements or feats that put her in 22nd budokai/old piccolo level. She can't even follow the fights.

Old Daimao wouldn't be able to follow Weighted Goku vs. Tien (suppressed speed) either.

Do you honestly believe there's a larger gap between young daimou and old daimou than there is between young daimou and 23rd yamcha?

I honestly don't see that

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Tao was out to kill Ten and Ten actually fought semi-seriously early on to get a feel of Tao's abilities while Goku never had the impetus to beat up Chi-Chi so I don't find the two equitable. Especially when Tao pulled a knife and tried to kill Ten with a cybernetic cannon while Chi-Chi was just mad Goku forgot who she was

True, but I don't see Tao ever being able to do the same against Tien even if he were in Chi-Chi's shoes.

Besides I don't really think she's stronger than Tao.

You got me there.

Still Chi-chi doesn't have any statements or feats that put her in 22nd budokai/old piccolo level. She can't even follow the fights.

Old Daimao wouldn't be able to follow Weighted Goku vs. Tien (suppressed speed) either.

Do you honestly believe there's a larger gap between young daimou and old daimou than there is between young daimou and 23rd yamcha?

I honestly don't see that

Chapter: 144, P9.2-3
Pilaf: “Um, hey…So if he regains his youth, he’ll be even more amazing…?”
Piano: “Naturally. So much so that there’ll be no comparison [to how he is now].”

It's a massive gap.

 

[ahill1]

Yea, there's a massive gap. So much that only initial young Piccolo was already way stronger than his old self.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think @One Piece Bus Ride came up with the argument that Piano was talking about his Initial Young power instead of his Full Young Power. While Piano was completely calm about Goku landing a hit on Old Daimao, Piano looked worried when Goku landed a hit on Young Daimao, which could show that Piano had no idea that Piccolo was suppressed.

 

[sei'taer]

True, but I don't see Tao ever being able to do the same against Tien even if he were in Chi-Chi's shoes.

Besides I don't really think she's stronger than Tao.


Old Daimao wouldn't be able to follow Weighted Goku vs. Tien (suppressed speed) either.

Do you honestly believe there's a larger gap between young daimou and old daimou than there is between young daimou and 23rd yamcha?

I honestly don't see that

Chapter: 144, P9.2-3
Pilaf: “Um, hey…So if he regains his youth, he’ll be even more amazing…?”
Piano: “Naturally. So much so that there’ll be no comparison [to how he is now].”

It's a massive gap.

That doesn't quantify the gap.

Even so, tenshinhan who was far weaker than old daimou was still able to see young daimou and goku's movements even after they were serious. Clearly old piccolo would be able to keep up with young piccolo's movements. To not be able to follow a fight is presented as a massive difference in strength all through dragonball.

 

[Six Trails]

Following a fight seems pretty inconsistent. Piccolo could follow SS3 Gotenks and Evil Boo who are likely tens of thousands of times more powerful than him.

 

[Papasmurf]

Your memory of the fight isn't very good then. This was before Daimao went full power later as well.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Plus, there is the fact that Yamcha was capable of knocking God off of his feet, who flicked the Goku that beat Daimao away like a bug. God was messing around, sure, but it still speaks volumes as to just how strong Yamcha and Kuririn are in the 23rd Budokai.

 

[Papasmurf]

Although it is worth noting that he was taken off guard and that his human host weakened him.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

True, but God did compliment him for his efforts. This could even mean that Young Daimao < Yamcha & Kuririn, although they still did find Weighted Goku's speed impressive, so it is by no means a fact.

 

[ahill1]

I think @One Piece Bus Ride came up with the argument that Piano was talking about his Initial Young power instead of his Full Young Power. While Piano was completely calm about Goku landing a hit on Old Daimao, Piano looked worried when Goku landed a hit on Young Daimao, which could show that Piano had no idea that Piccolo was suppressed.

That was me lol.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think @One Piece Bus Ride came up with the argument that Piano was talking about his Initial Young power instead of his Full Young Power. While Piano was completely calm about Goku landing a hit on Old Daimao, Piano looked worried when Goku landed a hit on Young Daimao, which could show that Piano had no idea that Piccolo was suppressed.

That was me lol.

I saw it a while back, so I forgot who posted it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[ahill1]

It's the same thing in the fight against Freeza. Piccolo could not see final form Freeza's movements at all, but a bit later was able to tell what was happening when Goku was fighting Freeza haha. Good Toriyama.

 

[sei'taer]

Your memory of the fight isn't very good then. This was before Daimao went full power later as well.

Viz translation is that he could barely follow it. When they go full power he comments it's too much, but he's still able to physically react to piccolo's blast and save goku.