Completed SSB

[Future Warrior]

I think Rose has the same weakness as Blue but I don't think Black was misusing the form...

 

[freezamite]

Your examples proved my point. They were implied and stated unlike your assumption here buddy.

Black SHOULD realize Rose stamina problem but he didn't because the form didn't suffer the same weakness that Blue did otherwise, Vegeta would mock him for that like how the Androids miscalculated the Saiyans and Vegeta mocked them for that, same thing he did against Dodoria and Zarbon, and same thing he did against Black earlier about Goku's body. But in this case, nothing was ever implied that Rose has a weakness like Blue has which is inconsistency in Toriyama/Toyotaro's part as they should explain more about the Rose form.

No, Black can't realize the Rose stamina problem because as I've said, he had no references he could compare.
Vegeta in the earth realised his weakness because he couldn't even kill Goku, Krilin and Gohan when those were badly injured and without much strength. He thought he would've been able to kill them, but he couldn't, and he knew the strength those 3 had when they were at full strength and the strength they should have at that moment.

The same for Raditz. Only after he saw that Goku had enough strength left in him to immobilise him he realised how weakened he was.

With Freezer he had to be told by Goku he was losing strength, in both his two fights, and Mecha Freezer we know from Gohan, he never realises his weakness at all.

So now lets see Black vs Vegeta. We know Vegeta hasn't powered up because the God forms can't be improved at all in terms of brute strength (the only improvements come from mastering the forms or attaining new forms combining the god powers with previous known forms). Black doesn't know that.
We also know SSJB Vegeta was considerably below SSJR Black, let alone SSJGod Vegeta. And we also know Vegeta's tactic is only valid when the SSJG form is enough to react to his enemy's attacks, because against Fused Zamatsu he goes full blue for a reason (that being the SSJGod was too weak to even react to fused Zamasu's attacks).

So that alone already points towards SSJRose Black being considerably weaker than before. The only difference here is that Vegeta never explains the full trick to Black, but that's absolutely logic considering that if Black knew this he would probably tried desperately to get healed by Zamasu and regain his advantage.

But let's not say that we, as readers, weren't given enough clues as to what happened. Black didn't get them, he probably assumed Vegeta had powered up his Blue as well or that he had been fooled by his SSJGod appearance.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No, Black can't realize the Rose stamina problem because as I've said, he had no references he could compare.
Vegeta in the earth realised his weakness because he couldn't even kill Goku, Krilin and Gohan when those were badly injured and without much strength. He thought he would've been able to kill them, but he couldn't, and he knew the strength those 3 had when they were at full strength and the strength they should have at that moment.

Really? If Black can't tell the Rose weakness then someone has to tell that to him and Vegeta is the best guy to tell him that. Just like when Vegeta explained to Black how Goku's body work in the anime version.

Episode: 63
Time: 20:51-21:52
Context: Vegeta explain to Black how Goku's body works
Vegeta: "Shall I tell you where you miscalculated?"
Black: "Miscalculated?"
Vegeta: "That body... down to the very corners of its cells... was made by Kakarot's long, fierce history of combat! For you it's just a borrowed vessel! Only a true numbskull like him... can use the Saiyan cells within it... to their fullest!"
Black: "Why is there such a difference in strength?"
Vegeta: "Would you like to know? It's because you're a fake. And I'm the Saiyan prince... Vegeta sama! That's why!"

What's more, since Vegeta suffered from Blue's weakness then he would've tell Black about Rose's weakness but he didn't since the weakness doesn't exist in Rose form.

The same for Raditz. Only after he saw that Goku had enough strength left in him to immobilise him he realised how weakened he was.

With Freezer he had to be told by Goku he was losing strength, in both his two fights, and Mecha Freezer we know from Gohan, he never realises his weakness at all.

Come on now, can't you see the difference here?

Spoiler

Here, it was said that Raditz can't get Goku off of his back was because he was weakened from Gohan's headbutt now compare to your argument, where does it say that Rose suffered the same weakness like Blue?

So now lets see Black vs Vegeta. We know Vegeta hasn't powered up because the God forms can't be improved at all in terms of brute strength (the only improvements come from mastering the forms or attaining new forms combining the god powers with previous known forms). Black doesn't know that.
We also know SSJB Vegeta was considerably below SSJR Black, let alone SSJGod Vegeta. And we also know Vegeta's tactic is only valid when the SSJG form is enough to react to his enemy's attacks, because against Fused Zamatsu he goes full blue for a reason (that being the SSJGod was too weak to even react to fused Zamasu's attacks).

So that alone already points towards SSJRose Black being considerably weaker than before. The only difference here is that Vegeta never explains the full trick to Black, but that's absolutely logic considering that if Black knew this he would probably tried desperately to get healed by Zamasu and regain his advantage.

But let's not say that we, as readers, weren't given enough clues as to what happened. Black didn't get them, he probably assumed Vegeta had powered up his Blue as well or that he had been fooled by his SSJGod appearance.

Or maybe Vegeta powered up too? After all, Black was shock to feel Vegeta's instand blue form which explains that Vegeta not only mastered the switching technique, but powered up as well.

 

[freezamite]

Really? If Black can't tell the Rose weakness then someone has to tell that to him and Vegeta is the best guy to tell him that. Just like when Vegeta explained to Black how Goku's body work in the anime version.

What? Why does Vegeta have to explain it? Vegeta knows it, the reader knows it because it's made explicit both through feats and through the description of what the "rose" form is, and contextually speaking, it doesn't make any sense for Vegeta to explain that to Black.

Episode: 63
Time: 20:51-21:52
Context: Vegeta explain to Black how Goku's body works
Vegeta: "Shall I tell you where you miscalculated?"
Black: "Miscalculated?"
Vegeta: "That body... down to the very corners of its cells... was made by Kakarot's long, fierce history of combat! For you it's just a borrowed vessel! Only a true numbskull like him... can use the Saiyan cells within it... to their fullest!"
Black: "Why is there such a difference in strength?"
Vegeta: "Would you like to know? It's because you're a fake. And I'm the Saiyan prince... Vegeta sama! That's why!"

What's more, since Vegeta suffered from Blue's weakness then he would've tell Black about Rose's weakness but he didn't since the weakness doesn't exist in Rose form.

Yeah, let's give your enemy the key to his defeat when he still can take easy counter-measures to change the tide of the battle, what could go wrong?

Look, can you justify SSJBlue Vegeta being above SSJRose Black without SSJR having stamina problems? Or SSJGod Vegeta being able to react to SSJ Rose Black?

Speculations about how a character should behave doesn't have as much weight as solid feats, and even less if what you're asking that character to do is something that goes directly against his interests.

Here, it was said that Raditz can't get Goku off of his back was because he was weakened from Gohan's headbutt now compare to your argument, where does it say that Rose suffered the same weakness like Blue?

In the same exact part where it's said that the SSJRose is the same form than the SSJBlue. Did Raditz have a penis? In your opinion, no he didn't have it because it wasn't stated nor shown anywhere. In my opinion he had it because we know saiyans have it and nobody said Raditz was different in that regard.
And hey, if Rose was getting weaker and weaker wihtout being injured or having done any effort, then he MUST have a stamina weakness, don't you think?

Or maybe Vegeta powered up too? After all, Black was shock to feel Vegeta's instand blue form which explains that Vegeta not only mastered the switching technique, but powered up as well.

He didn't power up because:
1- The godly forms doesn't work like that.
2- Goku only trained the mafuba for one day, and they were both at the same level of strength while using the incomplete SSJB forms.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

What? Why does Vegeta have to explain it? Vegeta knows it, the reader knows it because it's made explicit both through feats and through the description of what the "rose" form is, and contextually speaking, it doesn't make any sense for Vegeta to explain that to Black.

Because Vegeta loves to correct his opponent's mistakes such as

Chapter: 249 (DBZ 55), P1.1-4, P2.1-2
Context: Vegeta powers up until Kui’s scouter explodes.
Vegeta: “Take a goo—ood look at my battle power figure on your scouter!”
Kyui: “I'm…impossible…! We…we were supposed to be even in strength…!”
Vegeta: “You damn fool! I’ve been fighting ceaselessly in real battles! On Earth there was such a battle that I almost died! How long did you think we’d stay even as you stayed comfortable with Freeza?!”
Kyui: “19,000…20,000…21,000…22,000…!”

Vegeta just explained why he and Cui aren't rivals.


Chapter: 257 (DBZ 63), P4.2
Context: talking about sensing ki
Vegeta: “It was simple once I got the gist of it. But it’s no use if you’re focused just on power, like you guys or Freeza…I was like that too until recently…”

Vegeta mocked the Freeza empire for focusing on just power.

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P8.2-4
No.19: “Seems you’ve been watching things all along, but you missed hearing the most important thing. Vegeta, we already know all about your battle techniques.”
Vegeta: “Even so, you looked pretty surprised when Kakarot became a Super Saiyan…In other words, your data from the battle with Freeza up to the present is estimated…We Saiyans can’t be understood just by calculations…”

Vegeta mocked Gero for underestimating the Saiyans.

So my question is, why didn't Vegeta mocked Black for not knowing/realizing Rose weakness? After all, Vegeta knew the form better than anyone at that point therefore he should point it out on Black. But since both of them never implies anything about Rose's weakness, therefore Rose doesn't have a weakness like SSjinB but of course if you can provide a solid proof.

Yeah, let's give your enemy the key to his defeat when he still can take easy counter-measures to change the tide of the battle, what could go wrong?

Look, can you justify SSJBlue Vegeta being above SSJRose Black without SSJR having stamina problems? Or SSJGod Vegeta being able to react to SSJ Rose Black?

Speculations about how a character should behave doesn't have as much weight as solid feats, and even less if what you're asking that character to do is something that goes directly against his interests.

So Goku was able to tell the ASSjin's weakness, Cell was able to pointed out Grade III's weakness, Goku was able to pointed out Freeza's stamina, Goku/Vegeta were able to pointed Golden Freeza's weakness? Those are solid prove that they will always point out someone's weakness but Vegeta and Goku never point any weaknesses on Rose form which mean it doesn't exist. Fact.

In the same exact part where it's said that the SSJRose is the same form than the SSJBlue. Did Raditz have a penis? In your opinion, no he didn't have it because it wasn't stated nor shown anywhere. In my opinion he had it because we know saiyans have it and nobody said Raditz was different in that regard.

We're talking about power here which is the focal point of the series and if it wasn't implied nor stated therefore it doesn't exist.

And hey, if Rose was getting weaker and weaker wihtout being injured or having done any effort, then he MUST have a stamina weakness, don't you think?

Can you point out where it was implied that Rose was getting weaker other than Vegeta beating the hell out of Black?

He didn't power up because:
1- The godly forms doesn't work like that.
2- Goku only trained the mafuba for one day, and they were both at the same level of strength while using the incomplete SSJB forms.

???

So are you saying that God form cannot get stronger? Then why the hell are they still training with Whis if they don't get stronger at all? Beerus wants them to get stronger to be consider enough as candidate of Hakaishin.

How can you tell that Goku and Vegeta are equal? They both get their ass kicked by Merged Zamasu.

 

[freezamite]

I think Rose has the same weakness as Blue but I don't think Black was misusing the form...

Well, he was clearly abusing it against fighters he had no need to do so. I mean, SSJ2 Black was much stronger than Trunks, he had no need to go full Rose to kick his...

Vegeta just explained why he and Cui aren't rivals.
Vegeta mocked the Freeza empire for focusing on just power.
Vegeta mocked Gero for underestimating the Saiyans.

So my question is, why didn't Vegeta mocked Black for not knowing/realizing Rose weakness? After all, Vegeta knew the form better than anyone at that point therefore he should point it out on Black.

1. Since when is mocking someone the same as explaining your enemy the key to HIS victory? Lol.
2. In what way what Vegeta said to those enemies could help them to win?
3. If according to you Vegeta always explains his tricks, why didn't he explain Black that he was transforming into the SSJBlue the instant he attacked or dodged? So in the same fight he was hidding his strategy as much as he could to fool Black, you want him to explain Black the key to victory? Can't you even start to see how that's bad writting and goes directly against what Vegeta was trying to do?

So Goku was able to tell the ASSjin's weakness, Cell was able to pointed out Grade III's weakness, Goku was able to pointed out Freeza's stamina, Goku/Vegeta were able to pointed Golden Freeza's weakness?

1. Goku said nothing about any ASSJin weakness as far as I remember. He only spoke about the inflated form (what you call Grade III I assume).
2. Goku is the most experienced fighter in the whole series, and always the first to notice Ki related things only matched by Krilin and Piccolo in their best moments. So yeah, him being able to realise something doesn't mean everyone else can, much less Zamasu who wasn't even in his body.
3. To point someone else's weakness is much easier than to notice it on yourself, as I proved before, there are dozens of examples of someone weakening without realising it, even if you don't want it to happen they're there, so it can happen.

We're talking about power here which is the focal point of the series and if it wasn't implied nor stated therefore it doesn't exist.

Look, if you're told that the SSJRose is the SSJBlue equivalent its automatically implied that the same that applies to the SSJBlue will apply to the SSJRose.
You don't like it, you don't want it to be this way, ok, but stop saying it's not implied because that's a lie.

Not only it's implied, but it's the focal point of the second part of the fight, where Vegeta precisely takes advantage of this weaknes to win against a stronger opponent he shouldn't be able to win.

Can you point out where it was implied that Rose was getting weaker other than Vegeta beating the hell out of Black?

So except for the feats that demonstrate that Black SSJRose was much weaker than before, you want me to point out where it's implied? Okay, because in fact I've already done that, IT'S IMPLIED IN THE SAME PAGE WHERE IT'S SAID THAT THE SSJRose IS THE SAME FORM THAN THE SSJBlue.

Now can you tell me where it's implied that SSJRose doesn't have the stamina problems? I mean, you are starting to enter Evil Vegeta mode here where your assumptions suddenly become facts and the facts and feats you don't like diminish in importance.

???

So are you saying that God form cannot get stronger? Then why the hell are they still training with Whis if they don't get stronger at all? Beerus wants them to get stronger to be consider enough as candidate of Hakaishin.

They can evolve those forms to get stronger and they can learn to fight better (remember that thing that Whis tells them about being able to react to an enemy's attack without thinking? Well, that's achieved through training as well), what they can't do is increase their strength by simply brute force training like they could do before (and this was also almost lost once they became SSJ).

How can you tell that Goku and Vegeta are equal? They both get their ass kicked by Merged Zamasu.

You've definetely entered Evil Vegeta mode. So the SSJRose, despite being described as "the same as the SSJBlue" doesn't have the weaknesses of the SSJBlue implicit on it because "it wasn't directly stated" and now you're saying that SSJBlue Vegeta was incredibly more powerful than SSJBlue Goku without absolutely nobody saying anything in that regard and it not being reflected in their fight against fused Zamasu.

You don't want SSJRose to have the same weakness than the SSJBlue form, ok, that I understand. But your desires are not what drew the manga, it was a guy called Toyotaro with the supervision of another guy called Toriyama.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I think Rose has the same weakness as Blue but I don't think Black was misusing the form...

Well, he was clearly abusing it against fighters he had no need to do so. I mean, SSJ2 Black was much stronger than Trunks, he had no need to go full Rose to kick his...

Vegeta just explained why he and Cui aren't rivals.
Vegeta mocked the Freeza empire for focusing on just power.
Vegeta mocked Gero for underestimating the Saiyans.

So my question is, why didn't Vegeta mocked Black for not knowing/realizing Rose weakness? After all, Vegeta knew the form better than anyone at that point therefore he should point it out on Black.

1. Since when is mocking someone the same as explaining your enemy the key to HIS victory? Lol.
2. In what way what Vegeta said to those enemies could help them to win?
3. If according to you Vegeta always explains his tricks, why didn't he explain Black that he was transforming into the SSJBlue the instant he attacked or dodged? So in the same fight he was hidding his strategy as much as he could to fool Black, you want him to explain Black the key to victory? Can't you even start to see how that's bad writting and goes directly against what Vegeta was trying to do?

So Goku was able to tell the ASSjin's weakness, Cell was able to pointed out Grade III's weakness, Goku was able to pointed out Freeza's stamina, Goku/Vegeta were able to pointed Golden Freeza's weakness?

1. Goku said nothing about any ASSJin weakness as far as I remember. He only spoke about the inflated form (what you call Grade III I assume).
2. Goku is the most experienced fighter in the whole series, and always the first to notice Ki related things only matched by Krilin and Piccolo in their best moments. So yeah, him being able to realise something doesn't mean everyone else can, much less Zamasu who wasn't even in his body.
3. To point someone else's weakness is much easier than to notice it on yourself, as I proved before, there are dozens of examples of someone weakening without realising it, even if you don't want it to happen they're there, so it can happen.

We're talking about power here which is the focal point of the series and if it wasn't implied nor stated therefore it doesn't exist.

Look, if you're told that the SSJRose is the SSJBlue equivalent its automatically implied that the same that applies to the SSJBlue will apply to the SSJRose.
You don't like it, you don't want it to be this way, ok, but stop saying it's not implied because that's a lie.

Not only it's implied, but it's the focal point of the second part of the fight, where Vegeta precisely takes advantage of this weaknes to win against a stronger opponent he shouldn't be able to win.

Can you point out where it was implied that Rose was getting weaker other than Vegeta beating the hell out of Black?

So except for the feats that demonstrate that Black SSJRose was much weaker than before, you want me to point out where it's implied? Okay, because in fact I've already done that, IT'S IMPLIED IN THE SAME PAGE WHERE IT'S SAID THAT THE SSJRose IS THE SAME FORM THAN THE SSJBlue.

Now can you tell me where it's implied that SSJRose doesn't have the stamina problems? I mean, you are starting to enter Evil Vegeta mode here where your assumptions suddenly become facts and the facts and feats you don't like diminish in importance.

???

So are you saying that God form cannot get stronger? Then why the hell are they still training with Whis if they don't get stronger at all? Beerus wants them to get stronger to be consider enough as candidate of Hakaishin.

They can evolve those forms to get stronger and they can learn to fight better (remember that thing that Whis tells them about being able to react to an enemy's attack without thinking? Well, that's achieved through training as well), what they can't do is increase their strength by simply brute force training like they could do before (and this was also almost lost once they became SSJ).

How can you tell that Goku and Vegeta are equal? They both get their ass kicked by Merged Zamasu.

You've definetely entered Evil Vegeta mode. So the SSJRose, despite being described as "the same as the SSJBlue" doesn't have the weaknesses of the SSJBlue implicit on it because "it wasn't directly stated" and now you're saying that SSJBlue Vegeta was incredibly more powerful than SSJBlue Goku without absolutely nobody saying anything in that regard and it not being reflected in their fight against fused Zamasu.

You don't want SSJRose to have the same weakness than the SSJBlue form, ok, that I understand. But your desires are not what drew the manga, it was a guy called Toyotaro with the supervision of another guy called Toriyama.

Apparently, you haven't prove anything other than assumption which is logical to assume that Rose should suffer the same fate like Blue but nope, nothing suggest that Rose eats stamina's user like Blue so your assumption means nothing.

 

[freezamite]

Apparently, you haven't prove anything other than assumption which is logical to assume that Rose should suffer the same fate like Blue but nope, nothing suggest that Rose eats stamina's user like Blue so your assumption means nothing.

Look, if the manga author says that SSJRose is THE SAME as the SSJBlue... then that means that its the same than the SSJBlue. You don't want to believe what the author of the manga said, ok, fine.
You say "nothing suggests" Rose has stamina problems, even when the whole strategy to defeat Rose revolved around those stamina problems. Ok, fine, good for you if you don't want to see it.
On the other hand I suddenly have to believe that SSJBlue Vegeta > SSJRose Black >> SSJBlue Goku without absolutely no one saying anything on that regard, simply because it fits your narrative. Ok, fine, whatever.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Apparently, you haven't prove anything other than assumption which is logical to assume that Rose should suffer the same fate like Blue but nope, nothing suggest that Rose eats stamina's user like Blue so your assumption means nothing.

Look, if the manga author says that SSJRose is THE SAME as the SSJBlue... then that means that its the same than the SSJBlue. You don't want to believe what the author of the manga said, ok, fine.
You say "nothing suggests" Rose has stamina problems, even when the whole strategy to defeat Rose revolved around those stamina problems. Ok, fine, good for you if you don't want to see it.
On the other hand I suddenly have to believe that SSJBlue Vegeta > SSJRose Black >> SSJBlue Goku without absolutely no one saying anything on that regard, simply because it fits your narrative. Ok, fine, whatever.

Yet the author didn't said anything about Rose having a stamina problem so...

 

[freezamite]

Apparently, you haven't prove anything other than assumption which is logical to assume that Rose should suffer the same fate like Blue but nope, nothing suggest that Rose eats stamina's user like Blue so your assumption means nothing.

Look, if the manga author says that SSJRose is THE SAME as the SSJBlue... then that means that its the same than the SSJBlue. You don't want to believe what the author of the manga said, ok, fine.
You say "nothing suggests" Rose has stamina problems, even when the whole strategy to defeat Rose revolved around those stamina problems. Ok, fine, good for you if you don't want to see it.
On the other hand I suddenly have to believe that SSJBlue Vegeta > SSJRose Black >> SSJBlue Goku without absolutely no one saying anything on that regard, simply because it fits your narrative. Ok, fine, whatever.

Yet the author didn't said anything about Rose having a stamina problem so...

Yeah, the author only said that Rose and Blue are the same. I guess it's the author's fault for not writting his manga thinking for people with the reading comprehension of a 5 year old kid.
By the way, now that I think of it, the overflowing KI of the SSJB form is drawn in the aura, don't you remember? It's those bubles that appear once the saiyans use that form.
And guess what, the SSJRose of Black also has those bubles of ki surrounding him, those same bubles of Ki that disappear once the form is mastered.

So now we have the description of the form, saying it's the same as Blue. We have the overflowing Ki drawn in the SSJRose aura, like the unmastered SSJB, and we also have the power scale which completely matches with what should be expected of SSJRose losing strength.

In other words, good night kid, YOU'VE BEEN COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY OWNED :rape

 

[Future Warrior]

Well, he was clearly abusing it against fighters he had no need to do so. I mean, SSJ2 Black was much stronger than Trunks, he had no need to go full Rose to kick his...

He only ever used Rose twice, and there was a time gap between those two instances so it's unlikely that he wouldn't have recovered his stamina.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Apparently, making an assumption makes you a winner!

I go with implications and facts dude, not assumptions.

 

[Void]

Look, if the manga author says that SSJRose is THE SAME as the SSJBlue... then that means that its the same than the SSJBlue. You don't want to believe what the author of the manga said, ok, fine.
You say "nothing suggests" Rose has stamina problems, even when the whole strategy to defeat Rose revolved around those stamina problems. Ok, fine, good for you if you don't want to see it.
On the other hand I suddenly have to believe that SSJBlue Vegeta > SSJRose Black >> SSJBlue Goku without absolutely no one saying anything on that regard, simply because it fits your narrative. Ok, fine, whatever.

Yet the author didn't said anything about Rose having a stamina problem so...

Yeah, the author only said that Rose and Blue are the same. I guess it's the author's fault for not writting his manga thinking for people with the reading comprehension of a 5 year old kid.
By the way, now that I think of it, the overflowing KI of the SSJB form is drawn in the aura, don't you remember? It's those bubles that appear once the saiyans use that form.
And guess what, the SSJRose of Black also has those bubles of ki surrounding him, those same bubles of Ki that disappear once the form is mastered.

So now we have the description of the form, saying it's the same as Blue. We have the overflowing Ki drawn in the SSJRose aura, like the unmastered SSJB, and we also have the power scale which completely matches with what should be expected of SSJRose losing strength.

In other words, good night kid, YOU'VE BEEN COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY OWNED :rape

The author never said anything about Rose and Blue being the same. You haven't owned anything. You can drop that condescending "5 year old kid" shit too.

 

[freezamite]

Well, he was clearly abusing it against fighters he had no need to do so. I mean, SSJ2 Black was much stronger than Trunks, he had no need to go full Rose to kick his...

He only ever used Rose twice, and there was a time gap between those two instances so it's unlikely that he wouldn't have recovered his stamina.

The SSJBlue have two huge weaknesses:
1. The transformation can't be triggered multiple times (which is what makes SSJB Vegeta in the U6 saga that weak, and what Vegeta managed to improve in the Goku Black saga).
2. The transformation consumes a lot of stamina while being used (which is what the completed SSJB fixes).

Black surely didn't transform multiple times (if he had done that, even SSJ2 Vegeta would've kicked his ass), but he spent quite some time in SSJRose only to abuse Trunks, which he didn't need at all.
He could've defeated Trunks with his powered-up SSJ2 (he would've beat Trunks like he was nothing) and his SSJR would've been stronger than it was when he started to fight Vegeta.

Apparently, making an assumption makes you a winner!

I go with implications and facts dude, not assumptions.

I think you have this backwards:
Facts:
- SSJRose aura is the exact same than the untrained SSJBlue aura when the form consumes stamina.
- SSJRose is said to be the equivalent of the SSJBlue.
DBS Chapter 20: Zamasu: "So when a divine being surpasses super saiyan God, instead of turning blue, they turn pink!"
DBS Chapter 20: Black: "kukukuku... this overflowing power... at last... it's finally mine!" <-- What motivated Zamasu's actions in the manga was seeing Goku use the SSJBlue in the tournament, which again confirms this was a SSJBlue equivalent.
- SSJGod Vegeta is able to react to SSJRose Black, when SSJBlue Vegeta wasn't able to fight against it.

Assumptions:
- SSJRose doesn't have stamina problems because Vegeta should've explained the form's weakness to Black if that was the case.

And it's worse when you contradict your own assumptions, like when you say:
"No one says that SSJB Vegeta is now much, much stronger than SSJB Goku, but he still is much stronger". I mean, your whole argument revolves in that it's not directly stated in a sentence that the SSJRose form has stamina problems despite everything pointing towards it, and in your next sentence SSJB Vegeta is much stronger than SSJB Goku without no one saying anything and there being absolutely 0 feats to back it up? Come on, you surely can do better, can't you?

The author never said anything about Rose and Blue being the same.

So when Zamasu says: "So when a divine being surpasses super saiyan God, instead of turning blue, they turn pink!" and Black says: "kukukuku... this overflowing power... at last... it's finally mine!" and when the aura has the exact same characteristics of the untrained SSJBlue... do I really have to believe that those are random words that mean nothing?
Well, I don't think so...

 

[Jerk Store]

 

[Void]

Your quote only explains that gods using that form turn pink. It says nothing about them being the same. In fact, I think it's quite obvious these forms work differently for Black when you look at his fights with Vegeta.

 

[freezamite]

Your quote only explains that gods using that form turn pink. It says nothing about them being the same.

It says it is the same form, even you are saying it. So, once they tell you this is SSJB with a different colour, they don't have to explain to you AGAIN what has been already explained about that form, only the differences. And the only difference that they explained was the colour of the hair due to Zamasu's divine soul.
No other differences were ever explained, so you can't assume they're there if you have absolutely NO PROOF of it. Any feat demonstrating Black doesn't lose strength? Something in particular that makes you think that? Nope, nothing, only your desires.

This is simple. You want to prove to me that Ten Shin Han doesn't have a dick? You can't simply say "never in the manga it's said that Ten Shin Han has a dick" because it's assumed he has one because of his condition as a male human being. Krilin also "didn't have a dick" until he had a son with A18, and that was not Toriyama contradicting himself because Krilin shouldn't have a dick since it was never said he had one.
It's not Toriyama's job to waste pages stating something that's obvious.

The same here. If Toyotaro/Toriyama had wanted SSJRose to have nothing in common with the SSJBlue then they wouldn't have said what they said, about it being the same form but with a different hair colour.
And in the same way they stated the difference in their hair's colour, they would've explained that the SSJRose doesn't have stamina problems if that had been the case.

In fact, I think it's quite obvious these forms work differently for Black when you look at his fights with Vegeta.

Let's analyse what happens between Black and Vegeta:
Round 1:
SSJ2 Vegeta is above SSJ2 Black.
SSJB Vegeta trashes SSJ2 Black.
Zamasu cures Black.
SSJ2 Black surpasses SSJB Vegeta (SSJB Vegeta has already lost power because of the SSJB form).
Goku cures Vegeta.
SSJB Vegeta and SSJ2 Black fight evenly for a very brief moment.
SSJ2 Black gains the advantage against SSJB Vegeta (SSJB Vegeta loses power while Black doesn't).
Zamasu cures Black again.
Black transforms into SSJRose.
SSJRose Black trashes SSJBlue Vegeta.

Between Rounds:
Goku trains for 1 day the mafuba.
Vegeta trains for 1 year in the RoSAT.

Round 2:
Pre-fight:
SSJRose Black beats SSJ2 Trunks.

Fight:
SSJGod Vegeta is able to react to SSJRose attacks.
SSJB Vegeta surpasses SSJRose Black.

Post-Fight:
SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta seem to be at the same level (until Goku uses it's improved SSJB form).

In other words, the stamina drain on the SSJRose form is undeniable. Vegeta goes from being trashed by it to surpass it without increasing his strength, as it's proven by the fact that his SSJB is still at the same power level of SSJB Goku who couldn't increase his strength at all in 1 day of training the mafuba.

Furthermore, it's not like IT'S NOT STATED, you know, a manga is not a book, in other words, information is transmitted not only through text but also through the drawings.
And the SSJBlue is the only aura in the whole DB series that has "blobs of ki" surrounding it, representing the huge amount of Ki that's lost when using that form.
And that's undeniable because the difference between a mastered SSJBlue and an unmastered SSJBlue, visually speaking, is precisely that the aura with blobs of Ki disappears in the mastered version of the form.

Since the very first moment that SSJRose has those blobs of Ki the author IS TELLING YOU that the SSJR has stamina problems. It's not written, it's drawn, in the same way that we have Goku going SSJ3 without saying "I'm SSJ3 now" and it's still SSJ3 because, guess what, it's drawn as a SSJ3.

So even if the SSJR wasn't described as the equivalent form to the SSJB, the sole fact that the aura has Ki blobs already demonstrates it's taxing to the body. But the thing is that we are told this is a SSJB equivalent, we see the Ki blobs in the aura and the power of Black in SSJRose suffers like it should be expected, going from >>> SSJBlue Vegeta to < SSJBlue Vegeta after using the SSJRose for some time.

In conclusion, you and Dr. Fearless can say that the SSJRose doesn't have stamina problems, or that Ten Shin Han doesn't have a dick, it still won't be true.

 

[Void]

SS2 Trunks matched SS3 Goku and said base Black was stronger than that. Base Black two shot SS2 Trunks. SS2 Vegeta attacks base Black and the latter transforms into Super Saiyan. SS Black proceeds to get pummeled by Vegeta, and Black is stated to have gotten stronger than he was when Trunks fled to the past. Vegeta then turns Blue just to rub it in even more.

So we already know from here SS Blue Vegeta >>>>> SS2 Vegeta > SS Black > Base Black > Base Black (Trunks' description) > SS3 Goku ~ SS2 Trunks. There is no way Black's forms are functioning the same way as the Saiyans.

SS Black gets healed and suddenly he is superior to Blue Vegeta, even when the latter gets a senzu. Still, Veggie apparently does enough damage to Black to warrant another heal. This one pushes Black over the line and he gains SS Rose. He proceeds with beating Vegeta even worse than before.

Obviously SS Rose Black > SS Black (zenkai) > Blue Vegeta. What kind of zenkai do you think Black got?

Vegeta returns home to use the RoSaT so he can return and beat Black. He uses SS God this time, easily defending himself from all of Rose Black's attacks. Vegeta is also using Blue in bursts, easily trashing Rose Black with them.

So Blue Vegeta > SS God Vegeta >~ Rose Black

It's pretty obvious Black's forms don't work the same way as the Saiyans, and you can easily point out that it has something to do with a god being in that body, a la Black getting Rose and not Blue.

 

[freezamite]

SS2 Trunks matched SS3 Goku and said base Black was stronger than that. Base Black two shot SS2 Trunks. SS2 Vegeta attacks base Black and the latter transforms into Super Saiyan. SS Black proceeds to get pummeled by Vegeta, and Black is stated to have gotten stronger than he was when Trunks fled to the past. Vegeta then turns Blue just to rub it in even more.

So we already know from here SS Blue Vegeta >>>>> SS2 Vegeta > SS Black > Base Black > Base Black (Trunks' description) > SS3 Goku ~ SS2 Trunks. There is no way Black's forms are functioning the same way as the Saiyans.

SS Black gets healed and suddenly he is superior to Blue Vegeta, even when the latter gets a senzu. Still, Veggie apparently does enough damage to Black to warrant another heal. This one pushes Black over the line and he gains SS Rose. He proceeds with beating Vegeta even worse than before.

Obviously SS Rose Black > SS Black (zenkai) > Blue Vegeta. What kind of zenkai do you think Black got?

Nobody has said that Black forms are functioning the same way as the saiyans, the sole fact that he has Zenkays after being able to turn SSJ while the regular saiyans doesn't already prove that.
But you can't use that reasoning to justify an "everything is valid" fallacy. We know there are differences between Black and a regular Saiyan precisely because THOSE DIFFERENCES HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED.

How do you know that Base Black >> SSJ2 Trunks = SSJ3 Goku? Well, you know it BECAUSE THE MANGA SHOWED IT TO YOU.

But here, you want me to assume differences not only not explained or shown in the manga, but that they actually contradict what's said in there.
It's like saying that Black could regenerate like Bu only because his SSJ forms aren't exactly the same. No, never in the manga we're told that Black can regenerate like Bu, and never in the manga we're told the SSJRose form doesn't lose Ki, so why assume it?

Vegeta returns home to use the RoSaT so he can return and beat Black. He uses SS God this time, easily defending himself from all of Rose Black's attacks. Vegeta is also using Blue in bursts, easily trashing Rose Black with them.

So Blue Vegeta > SS God Vegeta >~ Rose Black

It's pretty obvious Black's forms don't work the same way as the Saiyans, and you can easily point out that it has something to do with a god being in that body, a la Black getting Rose and not Blue.

BUT, and that's a big BUT, Blue Vegeta remains at the same level than Blue Goku (evolved forms of the transformation that put Goku above Vegeta a part).
So, going that year into the RoSAT didn't increase Vegeta's power, it only helped him to adapt his body to the SSJBlue transformation (although he still is not adapted at the SSJBlue form).
And Vegeta's whole strategy revolved around conserving his stamina.
The only difference between SSRose Black in the first fight and the second one is that Black had been in his SSJRose form for a while before the fight started.
So we have:
1. SSJRose is much weaker after it's been used for some time. We know it's not Vegeta powering up because never, no one says anything about Vegeta's power having increased and it's not shown in his feats either.
2. SSJRose is said to be the equivalent to the SSJBlue even if there are some differences (it's stronger, and the hair colouration changes).
3. SSJRose's aura has the same Ki bubbles that represent the lose of Ki of the untrained SSJBlue form.

So the manga IS TELLING YOU that Rose loses strength, both in feats, in the description of the form and in the way it's portrayed showing the lose of Ki in the aura. Everything points to SSJRose losing strength, NOTHING against it.
Of course there are differences between Black's forms and those of a regular saiyan, but the SSJBlue/SSJRose not losing stamina is not one of them.

 

[KyuubiAhri]

SS2 Trunks matched SS3 Goku and said base Black was stronger than that. Base Black two shot SS2 Trunks. SS2 Vegeta attacks base Black and the latter transforms into Super Saiyan. SS Black proceeds to get pummeled by Vegeta, and Black is stated to have gotten stronger than he was when Trunks fled to the past. Vegeta then turns Blue just to rub it in even more.

So we already know from here SS Blue Vegeta >>>>> SS2 Vegeta > SS Black > Base Black > Base Black (Trunks' description) > SS3 Goku ~ SS2 Trunks. There is no way Black's forms are functioning the same way as the Saiyans.

SS Black gets healed and suddenly he is superior to Blue Vegeta, even when the latter gets a senzu. Still, Veggie apparently does enough damage to Black to warrant another heal. This one pushes Black over the line and he gains SS Rose. He proceeds with beating Vegeta even worse than before.

Obviously SS Rose Black > SS Black (zenkai) > Blue Vegeta. What kind of zenkai do you think Black got?

Nobody has said that Black forms are functioning the same way as the saiyans, the sole fact that he has Zenkays after being able to turn SSJ while the regular saiyans doesn't already prove that.
But you can't use that reasoning to justify an "everything is valid" fallacy. We know there are differences between Black and a regular Saiyan precisely because THOSE DIFFERENCES HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED.

How do you know that Base Black >> SSJ2 Trunks = SSJ3 Goku? Well, you know it BECAUSE THE MANGA SHOWED IT TO YOU.

But here, you want me to assume differences not only not explained or shown in the manga, but that they actually contradict what's said in there.
It's like saying that Black could regenerate like Bu only because his SSJ forms aren't exactly the same. No, never in the manga we're told that Black can regenerate like Bu, and never in the manga we're told the SSJRose form doesn't lose Ki, so why assume it?

Vegeta returns home to use the RoSaT so he can return and beat Black. He uses SS God this time, easily defending himself from all of Rose Black's attacks. Vegeta is also using Blue in bursts, easily trashing Rose Black with them.

So Blue Vegeta > SS God Vegeta >~ Rose Black

It's pretty obvious Black's forms don't work the same way as the Saiyans, and you can easily point out that it has something to do with a god being in that body, a la Black getting Rose and not Blue.

BUT, and that's a big BUT, Blue Vegeta remains at the same level than Blue Goku (evolved forms of the transformation that put Goku above Vegeta a part).
So, going that year into the RoSAT didn't increase Vegeta's power, it only helped him to adapt his body to the SSJBlue transformation (although he still is not adapted at the SSJBlue form).
And Vegeta's whole strategy revolved around conserving his stamina.
The only difference between SSRose Black in the first fight and the second one is that Black had been in his SSJRose form for a while before the fight started.
So we have:
1. SSJRose is much weaker after it's been used for some time. We know it's not Vegeta powering up because never, no one says anything about Vegeta's power having increased and it's not shown in his feats either.
2. SSJRose is said to be the equivalent to the SSJBlue even if there are some differences (it's stronger, and the hair colouration changes).
3. SSJRose's aura has the same Ki bubbles that represent the lose of Ki of the untrained SSJBlue form.

So the manga IS TELLING YOU that Rose loses strength, both in feats, in the description of the form and in the way it's portrayed showing the lose of Ki in the aura. Everything points to SSJRose losing strength, NOTHING against it.
Of course there are differences between Black's forms and those of a regular saiyan, but the SSJBlue/SSJRose not losing stamina is not one of them.

if only your posts were a bit shorter...if only