Demon King Piccolo Saga Power Levels

[p123]

The Great Demon King Piccolo​

22nd Tenkaichi Budokai​

Panputto .200

King Chappa .550

Chaozu .600

Yamcha .600
~ Wolf Fang Fist (v2.0) .725
~ Kamehameha .800

Krillen .625

Master Shen 1.000

Jackie Chun (Initial) .900
~ Powered Up 1.100
~ Full Power (Unseen) 1.350

Goku (Initial) .650
~ Powered Up .900
~ Max Match Level 1.500
~ Battle Level 2.100

Tien (Initial) .600
~ Powered Up .750
~ Powered Up Further .900
~ Powered Up Further 1.100
~ Powered Up Further 1.500
~ Full Power 2.000
~ Kikoho 3,500

Piccolo Daimao Saga​

Krillen .625

Tambourine 1.750

Goku (Fatigued) 1.500
~ Full Power 2.400
~ Kamehameha 3.200

Piccolo Daimao (Initial) 2.250
~ Less than Half 6.000
~ Full Power (Unseen) 15.000




Piccolo Daimao (Flashback)


Shen 2.500

Roshi 2.500

Master Mutaito 3.000

Piccolo Daimao 30.000

Piccolo Daimao Saga Part 2​

Tien 2.000

Drum 3.000

Shenron 20.000

Piccolo Daimao (Initial) 30.000
~ Full Power 47.500

Goku (Initial) 32.500
~ Full Power 50.000

Meeting God​

Goku 50.000

Mr. Popo 75.000

Kami 150.000

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai​

King Chappa .800

Chaozu 15.000

Yajirobe 25.000

Chichi 27.500

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai 32.500

Yamcha 35.000

Krillen 37.500

Tien (Initial Speed/Power) 50.000/60.000
~ Full Speed/Power 60.000

Shen (Initial) 50.000
~ Full Power 120.000

Kami 150.000

Piccolo (Initial) 40.000
~ Powered Up 50.000
~ Powered Up Further 200.000
~ Full Power 250.000

Goku (Weighted Speed/Power) 50.000/60.000
~ W/o Weights (Initial) 90.000
~ Powered Up 200.000
~ Full Power 250.000
~ Super Kamehameha 375.000

 

[ahill1]

Kami 150.000

Piccolo (Initial) 40.000
~ Powered Up 50.000
~ Powered Up Further 200.000
~ Full Power 250.000

Why do you think Piccolo (powered up) is that above Shen? They were both fighting evenly, and Shen stating the difference between their powers is too big is likely hinting at Piccolo's reserves, much like the Kuririn vs Kame-Sen'nin situation, don't you think?

Other than that, they look really good. I'd rise Yamcha and Kuririn a little so they can have a wider advantage compared to Chappa-o, but I get your reasoning for believing that, so I won't go there.

 

[Animelover5487]

Why don't you include Cymbal and Yajirobe?

 

[p123]

Yes, that's Piccolo's reserves. Also, if you look at Piccolo's expressions when he sneaks up behind Shen, it's that of leisure, I think although he is fighting evenly, he kind of lets on he's way more powerful.

Yes, you know how I feel about King Chappa...

I lowered Battle Level Goku to more reasonable levels...

Do you have a chart for the Damage Levels for Goku/Piccolo? I think withheld had posted one before...

 

[ahill1]

Yes, that's Piccolo's reserves. Also, if you look at Piccolo's expressions when he sneaks up behind Shen, it's that of leisure, I think although he is fighting evenly, he kind of lets on he's way more powerful.

Yes, you know how I feel about King Chappa...

I lowered Battle Level Goku to more reasonable levels...

Do you have a chart for the Damage Levels for Goku/Piccolo? I think withheld had posted one before...

The first time it was stated Goku and Piccolo weren't at full power anymore was when Goku gave Piccolo the freebie so he could punch him. Piccolo stated Goku is beginning to tire himself out, while Goku stated Piccolo's punches aren't half what they used to be. I take the "half" part to be a hyperbole, otherwise... man, these levels would be bloated!

Spoiler

Spoiler

Piccolo still calls everyone out there -- including Kami -- weaklings that couldn't compare to his power and Roshi admitted it was an accurate statement:

Spoiler

So far, we have:

Piccolo/Goku (full power) >> Piccolo/Goku (winded up) >>> Kami and everyone else

Then Piccolo gets really angry over Goku saying he has no chance of winning, pulls off a technique, is tricked by Goku and ends up losing his arm. He then is forced to regenerate himself, which probably spent a good chunk of his power:

Spoiler

Piccolo/Goku (full power) >> Goku (winded up) >= Piccolo (winded up) >> Piccolo (post regeneration) >>> Kami and everyone else

Piccolo bets everything on his final attack and Goku is surprised at the amount of power is is applying on it. Goku can withstand that without apparent injuries by seemingly surrounding his body with chi, and says Piccolo is over since he ought to have used everything on that final gamble:

Spoiler

Piccolo/Goku (full power) >> Goku (winded up) >= Piccolo (winded up) >> Piccolo (post regeneration) >> Piccolo (post final attack) >>> Kami and everyone else

Then Goku elbows Piccolo's face, kicks his neck many times -- to which he is bleeding severely -- punches his gut and KMHMH'd him into the ground:

Spoiler

And then... Piccolo is still too much for Kami to handle, as Kami prefers to be killed by Tenshinhan than to try and face Piccolo.

Spoiler

Piccolo/Goku (full power) >> Goku (winded up) >= Piccolo (winded up) >> Piccolo (post regeneration) >> Piccolo (post final attack) >> Piccolo (post Goku's beatdown) >>> Kami and everyone else

I think one could try to argue Kami was also weakened by Piccolo's beatdown and severe weakened state as per what happened in Movie 1 as a way to tone the bloat down, but manga-wise it wasn't suggested as Kami doesn't seem to feel anything like his movie's counterpart.

 

[p123]

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting my friend. Yea, we are going to have to find a balance here of giving Kami some respect for catching Piccolo's punch, but also taking into account all of the damage levels. This will be some work...

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Mutaito >> Goku? Piccolo said Goku was about as far a human could get, Mutaito is barely any stronger than Goku if at all.

 

[p123]

You don't think 80% constitutes as "about as far"?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. I think these gaps are better for 22nd...
Roshi- 80
Match Level- 84
Initial Tien- 90
Battle Level- 105
Max Tien- 100

2. So, you don't go with Goku (post Tambourine)>Mutaito?

3. Why do you have Initial Piccolo Jr<Young Piccolo Daimaio? Aren't you the one that
convinced me Initial Piccolo Jr was already treated as stronger than the previous
incarnation?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You don't think 80% constitutes as "about as far"?

Not really. 100 is considerably above a 80. Daimao wouldn't have made the coment if he was that much below Mutaito IMO. Mutaito is at best 1.05 Goku here. I like having them as equals.

 

[p123]

If they were equals wouldn't it be "as far" and not "about as far"?

 

[p123]

1) I don't see a need for Initial Tien > Match Goku, I think they are about the same, Tien has a better showing but more because of strategy in my opinion. And then clearly Goku allows him to tee off on him.

2) I like to make Mutaito the strongest in that chain. Until I see some evidence that suggests he absolutely can't be, I'm going to keep it that way out personal preference. I try to give some credit to the master of masters, the strongest human being for generations and generations. If I'm a little off, so be it, but that's what I want to do. I want to give credit to Prime Roshi and Tsuru, I don't think the zenkai should be all that big and I want Mutaito to be as bad ass as I can reasonably make him. It's a matter of personal preference at this point. Goku is about as far as a human can go, Mutaito can be anywhere around there, stronger, weaker, it's personal preference imo.

3) My opinions change with the wind, I'm constantly evolving my point of view and I don't get held up on the past. That's why I'm the best.

Show me your chain and I'll get into it in more detail on that post.

 

[SSJ2]

Chapter: 144, P7.1
Context: after seeming to kill Goku
Piccolo: “Naturally, this level is about as far as a human could go.”

I don't see how this quote can imply anything but Mutaito > Goku.. He's directly implying he has seen a level barely above Goku's.

 

[Castiel]

I think Goku (fatigued) should be a bit weaker, Tambourine's kick did some hefty damage.

 

[ahill1]

^ I agree, fatigued Goku seems too strong in the list, even more so when he was later knocked out unconscious by Tambourine's 'punch', but maybe P is taking into account damaged Piccolo's level in the 23rd Budokai and he doesn't feel alright having the latter comparatively more powerful than Goku (post 22nd Budokai).

 

[Castiel]

Well, it probably differs from case to case.

Chapter: 135, P4.1
Context: after Goku runs off after Tambourine
Kame-sennin: “That idiot! This is someone good enough to defeat Kuririn…Goku’s used up all his power in the tournament; he shouldn’t have any chance of winning…!”

Muten thinks Goku has no shot at winning at the level he was at, so I probably wouldn't mind having him a bit above Krillin.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, I think that implies Goku shouldn't be able to easily defeat Kuririn, as Tambourine doing so was already enough for Roshi to know Goku wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If they were equals wouldn't it be "as far" and not "about as far"?

"About as far" consitutes them being on the same vicinity. Perhaps Mutaito is stronger, perhaps Goku is stronger, but it's by a mediocre gap. Piccolo can't really tell according to the way he words it, but the gap is insignificant. Them being equals is my personal preference out of the three options on the table.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

3) My opinions change with the wind, I'm constantly evolving my point of view and I don't get held up on the past. That's why I'm the best.

Show me your chain and I'll get into it in more detail on that post.

When Piccolo was fighting Krillin, the power he showed was believed to be his max and he was already considered stronger than King Piccolo.

Young Piccolo- 95
Water Goku- 100
Krillin- 95
Initial Piccolo Jr- 110

 

[p123]

I like the points you guys are bringing up about Fatigued Goku, I hadn't even considered that line, I was just going off of the Tambourine v Goku fight. The whiff of Goku's punch and kick reminds me of Goku v Cell a little and the damage done by the kick, it wasn't tremendous in my opinion. I have Goku at 85.7% of Tambourine. Nearly the same level I have Piccolo v Android 20. I don't think I really need much more than that based on the fight. Roshi's comment is interesting however. I'm not sure that I agree with it being a sensed ki thing here, it just seems like hey, Krillen is a strong fighter and you are tired, you shouldn't go out there half cocked. I don't think Roshi is sensing his ki there, just more than being common sense advice. But I don't know, I'd have to think about it.

@ Great Saiyaman

I think 80% is about as far. When we are talking about in terms of total human potential, getting 80% of the way there, is pretty damn far. It's right there. Just how big do you want to make Goku's zenkai? I think Prime Roshi/Tsuru should be above 22nd Budokai Goku. Let me see your chain for Prime Roshi/Tsuru, 22nd Goku and Initial PD. There's a delicate balance that must be met between all of these characters, concessions have to be made...

@Withheld

Where are you getting this from? Show me some quotes stating Initial Piccolo Jr > Piccolo Daimao.