Did the Z Senshi know 50% Goku wasn't his max?

[SSJ2]

The Cell Juniors display serious expressions against Vegeta and Trunks implying that they are going all out. Against the humans and Goku towards the end, it’s pretty clear they are fucking around. Piccolo vs Cell Junior is not shown close enough to tell how much effort the Junior is putting in, but the 1 panel we see shows Piccolo engaged in combat. It looks as if he is either blocking the Jrs attack or vice versa. It’s pretty clear to me that the J.R. is not playing around with Piccolo. Piccolo is roughed up at the end of the fight but it’s clear he put up a better effort than Goku.

 

[p123]

You are misrepresenting what the range is.

The range is those who can still fight after being locked in combat with a Cell Junior for a period of time.

Vegeta and Trunks are showing damage and they are almost on par with them. Piccolo is much more damaged and Goku is not within range. He has been taken out of the fight.

So Piccolo needs to be strong enough to be able to withstand the assault of a Cell Junior for a period of time.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How am I disinterpretating it? I said the same stuff you did. They're both unable to fight, but Goku is worse than Piccolo.

 

[p123]

No man. Piccolo is clearly able to still fight. Goku is face down, ass up, unable to fight.

Piccolo is still in the fight, the referee has has not counted him out, although his coach is considering throwing in the towel. Goku is down and out, he's not unconscious, but he is clearly out of the fight. The referee has waived the fight.

Cell Juniors >= Vegeta/Trunks > Piccolo > Goku (Battle Worn)

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo barely looks worse than Trunks by the end of the fight.There’s also the manga title page For DBZ 214 that backs this up.

 

[p123]

Yeah, you could potentially have Piccolo very, very strong. The anime depicts him as a beast and the panels show he is still fighting.

He's definitely a step down from Trunks and Vegeta, who are more or less equals at this point.

It's possible to have him as high as 85-90% of Vegeta/Trunks if you really wanted to.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm not really sure what your points are. Sure, Piccolo is still standing, but why does that means he's gotta be close to the Cell Jr? Goku took a hell of a beating from 50% Freeza, yet he looks better than when he fought Cell Jr...

 

[SSJ2]

Agreed, there really isn’t anything factually disproving it imo. I think having him around 80% of them is pretty fair. I don’t see why the Juniors would play around with Piccolo, but not knock him out like they did with the humans and exhausted MSSJ Goku.

Something I didn’t notice.. Cell yells at the Juniors to kill them all/finish them off, and then 16’s head lands by Gohan. So during that entire sequence where 16 is speaking to Gohan, the Junior was unable to even knock Piccolo to the ground. To imply that they were still not trying against him does not line up with that dialogue.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

We don't even see what happens. He could've been knocked down and just got back on his feet. Gohan did the same thing against Recoome.

 

[SSJ2]

But to say he was Super Vegeta level implies they’d instantly one shot him after being told to get serious. This did not happen, and the manga title page for the chapter after the Cell Junior fight shows that Piccolo still had plenty of fight left in him.

 

[p123]

Yeah, Super Vegeta level is LOL worthy.

 

[SSJ2]

There was an entire sequence there where 16 was having a fullout conversation with Gohan. Cell even told them to kill them before 16 showed up. Piccolo wouldn’t be in that good of shape unless he was somewhat within their range. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Spoiler

I guess Goku still had plenty of fight left in him... I mean, Goku wouldn’t be in that good of shape unless he was somewhat within Freeza's range. It just doesn’t make sense.

The Cell Jr case is even less of a feat because the Cell Jrs were shown not be fully serious after Cell made his request, as proven by the humans still being alive and Goku even being conscious. You'd think the 4 of them would be dead if they were bloodlusted.

 

[p123]

Goku is depicted to be less competitive against Freeza than Piccolo was against the Cell Jr.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You've seen the full fight? Link!

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

You've seen the full fight? Link!

 

[p123]

From what we are shown crazy. The anime depicts Piccolo being stronger than Vegeta and Trunks.

 

[SSJ2]

Not to mention Freeza wasn’t trying to kill him there.

The humans were at death’s door at the end of the fight. They look to be in the same shape as Gohan was after Reacoom got serious against him. Goku looks like he is one hit away from joining them in that state. Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta show nothing close to this. They look to be heavily worn out, but that’s it. Not even close to death’s door.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

From what we are shown crazy. The anime depicts Piccolo being stronger than Vegeta and Trunks.

We are shown one panel. One panel also lead Trunks to believe Vegeta and #18 were equals...

The fact you just admited the Anime has Piccolo > Vegeta kinda defeats the purpose of bringing up the anime...

The anime

Not to mention Freeza wasn’t trying to kill him there.

The humans were at death’s door at the end of the fight. They look to be in the same shape as Gohan was after Reacoom got serious against him. Goku looks like he is one hit away from joining them in that state. Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta show nothing close to this. They look to be heavily worn out, but that’s it. Not even close to death’s door.

Freeza was pissed that Goku hurt him with the Kaioken x20 Kamehameha, and Goku admits he's got nothing left. That headbutt oughta have killed him.

Still not dead as Cell requested, so Cell Jrs still not going all out, and even if they were that wouldn't request Piccolo to be close to them as the Goku vs Freeza scans I posted implies.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The anime has Yamcha and Tenshinhan owning the Cell Jr.s