Do you think Future Trunks vs Dabura (in both medias) just goes on to show that Dabura was really intended to be on Cell's level?

Natasha Romanoff

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Buu punching rocks is paltry in comparison to the battles he's had before. The point is he got stronger from exertion.

I never said each battle gives a big improvement.
But, have you think about that Dabura could maybe never have need to effort in his battles, and as well, that Freeza, Piccolo and Buu despite of exerting effort in many situations on a battle couldn't get stronger? What assures us that something similar happened with Dabura? Do we even know if Dabura has that great of a potential that if he trained (something unproven) he can get that much stronger?
 

Dagon

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But, have you think about that Dabura could maybe never have need to effort in his battles, and as well, that Freeza, Piccolo and Buu despite of exerting effort in many situations on a battle couldn't get stronger? What assures us that something similar happened with Dabura? Do we even know if Dabura has that great of a potential that if he trained (something unproven) he can get that much stronger?
The only thing that matters is that Future Dabura is shown being on Z Sword SSJ Trunks' level, so it doesn't matter how he got that way. It is what it is. You are using an argument from incredulity. Your incredulousness is irrelevant.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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The only thing that matters is that Future Dabura is shown being on Z Sword SSJ Trunks' level, so it doesn't matter how he got that way. It is what it is. You are using an argument from incredulity. Your incredulousness is irrelevant.
How about we never got to see Dabura using full effort against Gohan and he is doing it with Trunks?
0265-002.jpg
 

Dagon

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How about we never got to see Dabura using full effort against Gohan and he is doing it with Trunks?
It's never said Dabura wasn't using full effort. Your scan doesn't say anything like that.
There's other material that says Gohan was superior in power to Dabura but was having trouble because of rusty skills(Dragon Box book).
 

Natasha Romanoff

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It's never said Dabura wasn't using full effort. Your scan doesn't say anything like that.
There's other material that says Gohan was superior in power to Dabura but was having trouble because of rusty skills(Dragon Box book).
Dabura was confident on fighting Gohan again and thinks it wouldn't be difficult to dispatch him.

Okay, but we're talking about the manga since the anime is very vague and you yourself are using a feat from the manga.
 

Goku9001

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Dabura was confident on fighting Gohan again and thinks it wouldn't be difficult to dispatch him.

Okay, but we're talking about the manga since the anime is very vague and you yourself are using a feat from the manga.
As per your logic, there are other reasons why Dabura would be confident. For one, Gohan lost enough stamina during their fight where he had to take a sensu bean. In contrast, Dabura was sweating a bit but immediately caught his breath with no indication that his stamina had dropped by a large margin. Dabura's magic on top of Gohan's wasted movements would naturally cause Gohan to lose more stamina which would result in him losing the match even if his power was slightly greater than Dabura's.

The circumstances of the fight would be enough to suggest that Dabura went full throttle. Dabura expressed intentions of beating Gohan and the objective was to deal significant damage to Gohan to resurrect Buu. Dabura was also forced to use his magic presumably and I doubt Dabura would perform better at "full power" than he would if he were not using his magic at whatever level you think Dabura was at.
 

Dagon

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Dabura was confident on fighting Gohan again and thinks it wouldn't be difficult to dispatch him.

Okay, but we're talking about the manga since the anime is very vague and you yourself are using a feat from the manga.
Gohan was rusty so he would be outmatched by someone like Dabura who has his skills sharp, not to mention his magic. The manga is enough for this.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Gohan was rusty so he would be outmatched by someone like Dabura who has his skills sharp, not to mention his magic. The manga is enough for this.
His magic didn't served to that purpose initially, he wasn't even able to injure him, let alone kill him, in this scene he is completely confident on killing him. This is without saying that his saliva didn't also as he quitted his glove and Gohan was also able to destroy his sword.
 

Dagon

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His magic didn't served to that purpose initially, he wasn't even able to injure him, let alone kill him, in this scene he is completely confident on killing him. This is without saying that his saliva didn't also as he quitted his glove and Gohan was also able to destroy his sword.
That still isn't enough to say that Dabura had more power that wasn't shown prior. That's a pretty subjective point.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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That still isn't enough to say that Dabura had more power that wasn't shown prior. That's a pretty subjective point.
Ah yes, then Dabura thinks of defeating Gohan, even though, he couldn't prior and wanted Vegeta to do the things for him, but now he is fully confident as he is and doesn't think much of Gohan.
 

Goku9001

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Ah yes, then Dabura thinks of defeating Gohan, even though, he couldn't prior and wanted Vegeta to do the things for him, but now he is fully confident as he is and doesn't think much of Gohan.
Couldn't there be another reason for that?
 

Dagon

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Ah yes, then Dabura thinks of defeating Gohan, even though, he couldn't prior and wanted Vegeta to do the things for him, but now he is fully confident as he is and doesn't think much of Gohan.
Dabura suggested Vegeta be made a Majin out of convenience. Vegeta loudly proclaimed he wanted to fight Goku and Dabura took the bait to have the Earthlings fight each other for them.

Dabura being confident in beating Gohan doesn't have to be because he thinks he can one-shot Gohan or that he has a big gap on Gohan. Can be because he's overall a better fighter than Gohan even if the two are rivals.
 

SIAD

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I really like what CC believes.

Gohan was SSJ2, Goku compared Dabura to SPC.

I have:

Goku SSJ3 (Boo) > Kid Boo > Fat Boo (FP) > Gohan SSJ2 (Post Sword Z) >>> Future Trunks SSJ2 (Post Sword Z) >> Fat Boo (Vs Vegeta) > Fat Boo (Vs Dabura) >= Future Dabura > Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2 > Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Final Rage Burst) > Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre) > Dabura (FP) > Dabura = SPC ~ Kid Gohan SSJ2 > Future Trunks SSJ (Post Sword Z) >= Teen Gohan SSJ2.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Dabura suggested Vegeta be made a Majin out of convenience. Vegeta loudly proclaimed he wanted to fight Goku and Dabura took the bait to have the Earthlings fight each other for them.

Dabura being confident in beating Gohan doesn't have to be because he thinks he can one-shot Gohan or that he has a big gap on Gohan. Can be because he's overall a better fighter than Gohan even if the two are rivals.
Dabura knew that Vegeta would be the best fighter and had already discovered that Vegeta had maliciousness on his side who can be manipulated by Babidi, as well as they can use him to revive Buu.

No, I'm not saying he had that big of a lead. And because he thinks by himself that he can do better than initially with nobody other than Shin being on Gohan's side.
 
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Dagon

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Dabura knew that Vegeta would be the best fighter and had already discovered that Vegeta had maliciousness on his side who can be manipulated by Babidi, as well as they can use him to revive Buu.

No, I'm not saying he had that big of a lead. And because he thinks by himself that he can do better than initially with nobody other than Shin being on Gohan's side.
Does Dabura call Vegeta the best fighter? I recall he calls Vegeta a splendid fighter.

It doesn't make sense that Dabura would hold back or suppress in the first battle with Gohan as the whole point is to cause damage to Gohan. He even tries to kill Gohan with a sword. Come on man.
 

Natasha Romanoff

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Does Dabura call Vegeta the best fighter? I recall he calls Vegeta a splendid fighter.
My bad, Dabura called Vegeta the perfect fighter:
0261-013 (1).jpg
It doesn't make sense that Dabura would hold back or suppress in the first battle with Gohan as the whole point is to cause damage to Gohan. He even tries to kill Gohan with a sword. Come on man.
Dabura is pretty arrogant and considered himself the strongest in the universe, heck, he even had no problem fighting all the three saiyans at once, do you think he is going to use all of his effort against the weakest of the three? If one was better was him, as Gohan needed to eat a senzu after their fight, while Dabura was fresh. Dabura not holding back against Gohan my ovaries:
20230125_211846.png
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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To be fair, Dabra did say he wanted to enjoy himself, and the fight had just started. He might have just been testing the waters by that stage. He had much more stamina left than Gohan, after all.
 

Papasmurf

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To be fair, Dabra did say he wanted to enjoy himself, and the fight had just started. He might have just been testing the waters by that stage. He had much more stamina left than Gohan, after all.
Unfortunately we don't really get any statements indicating Dabura was putting in more effort when later ambushing Boo or that he raised his power (manga-wise).
 

Goku9001

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Don't know. You tell me.
It was in my previous post. One reason would be that Gohan's stamina was lower and was making wasted movements. So while they were initially on par with each other, the gap widened when Gohan's stamina was falling faster than Dabura's.
 
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